#265: Kim Scheuer, MD - All Hail Dr. Kale!
Dr. Scheuer loves to grow her own food!
Dr. Kim Scheuer is a dynamic plant-based telehealth physician and a passionate advocate for lifestyle medicine. Affectionately known as "Dr. Kale" by her patients, she shares her remarkable journey from a traditional family physician to embracing a plant-based lifestyle after navigating her own health challenges and witnessing the impact of nutrition on diseases.
In 2011, Dr. Kim Scheuer was a burned out family physician caught in the same grind of many physicians – long hours, diminishing patient care, and running on the hamster wheel of the “healthcare” system.
It was also around this time that Kim realized she was just one-year shy of the age her mother was when she was diagnosed with breast cancer. Determined not to walk this path, she started doing her research and what she found both astonished and angered her.
Of course, she found The China Study, Forks over Knives, and other resources, but how had she not learned any of this information in medical school??! How was she not familiar with the work of Dr. Dean Ornish, Dr. Fuhrman, Dr. McDougall, or Dr. Esselstyn?
It didn’t take long for this self-proclaimed “Milky Way vegetarian” and food addict to radically overhaul her own lifestyle and, ultimately, her medical practice. Today, she’s a plant-based telehealth physician with Love.Life Telehealth and she’s also board certified in Lifestyle Medicine. She works with patients in 25 states with general health and wellness, metabolic syndrome, diabetes, cardiovascular disease, blood pressure, cholesterol control, cancer prevention and food addiction.
Today, you’ll hear about her very personal journey, her passion for growing her own food, her connection to nature and her very personal “why” she needed to be plantstrong.
Episode Highlights
2:05 An Introduction to Dr. Kim Scheuer's Journey
5:31 Living Life Passionately Off the Grid
10:28 From Traditional to Plant-Based Medicine
14:06 Transitioning to a Telehealth practice
23:41 Tips for Overcoming Food Addiction
25:33 The Importance of Self-Forgiveness
33:54 Embracing a Plant-Based Lifestyle and Impact on Disease
39:21 The Joy of Deprescribing Medications
44:59 Essential Supplements for Health
48:06 Growing Your Own Food
52:56 Finding Balance in Nutrition
58:03 Practicing Self-Love and Kindness
Learn more about Dr. Kim Scheuer
About Kim Scheuer MD
Dr. Kim Scheuer is a board-certified family medicine and lifestyle medicine physician who has practiced in primary care settings for over 20 years in the Aspen, Colorado area. With a passion for living the lifestyle she prescribes for her patients, Dr. Scheuer believes patients can prevent, reverse, and slow chronic diseases to live more full, happy, and healthy lives. She is passionate about teaching what she learned to help her patients live their lives to the fullest. She now lives and practices in Salida, Colorado. Learn more about Dr. Scheuer.
Episode Resources
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Episode Trascription via AI Transcription Service
[0:00] I'm Rip Esslestyn, and you're listening to the PLANTSTRONG Podcast. This PLANTSTRONG doctor has so much energy and enthusiasm that even her patients call her Dr. Taz after the Tasmanian devil and Dr. Kale, well, after the green leafy vegetable that we all love so much. Through her own traumatic personal experiences, Dr. Kim Scheuer found plant-based nutrition, and lifestyle medicine as a way to make yourself healthier. Today, she shares what she has learned so that you too can feel younger, happier, and healthier. Her remarkable journey is right after these words from PLANTSTRONG.
Back to School and Batch Cooking
[0:50] It is officially September, which means it is back to school season. And in the Esselstyn house, it's back to hectic schedules and constant carpools with all the kids. Now we talk a lot about batch cooking on the weekends so that you can set yourself up for success with healthy meals all during the week. But when you're super tight on time, PLANTSTRONG chilies and stews are a lifesaver. We have 10 different varieties for you to try. All are hearty, satisfying, fine, super delicious. My go-to right now is the chunky chipotle, the spicy Cajun jambalaya, and the spiced lentil chili. I can tear open a box and heat up a giant bowl in just 90 seconds, or I'll split the box and eat them with leftover brown rice or a baked potato and some green leafies. I have a stocked supply at the office, so I am always prepared with a meal that fills me up, And I would encourage you to do the same. And now there's nothing stopping you from staying the course. Check out the PLANTSTRONG chilies and stews at plantstrong.com or check our store locator to find them at a store near you.
Dr. Kim Scheuer's Journey
[2:06] In 2011, Dr. Kim Scheuer was a burned-out family physician who was caught in the grind that many physicians now face. Long hours, diminishing patient care, running on the proverbial hamster wheel of the health care system. It was also around this time that Kim realized that she was just one year shy of the age that her mother was when she was diagnosed with breast cancer. her. Determined to not walk this path, she started doing her research, and what she found both astonished and angered her. Of course, she found the China study, forks over knives, and all the other resources, but how had she not learned any of this information in medical school? How was it that she wasn't familiar with the work of my father and Dr. Dean Ornish? Well, Well, it didn't take long for this self-proclaimed Milky Way vegetarian and food addict to radically overhaul her own lifestyle and ultimately her medical practice. Today, she's a plant-based telehealth physician with Love Life Telehealth, and she's also board certified in lifestyle medicine. She works with patients in 25 states around general health and wellness, but also metabolic.
[3:31] Diabetes, Cardiovascular Disease, Blood Pressure and Cholesterol Control, Cancer Prevention and Food Addiction. Today you're going to hear about her very personal journey, her passion for growing her own food, her connection to nature and her very personal why she needed to be PLANTSTRONG. Please welcome to the PLANTSTRONG Podcast, Dr. Kim Scheuer.
[4:01] Dr. Kim Scheuer, welcome to the PLANTSTRONG Podcast. It's a pleasure to have you. Thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be here. Yeah. So the last time that I saw you in person, we were hanging out in Black Mountain, North Carolina for the six-day PLANTSTRONG retreat, and you attended, and we got to hang, and we got to climb the mountain to High Windy. That was awesome. It was so awesome. And I remember I was trying to decide that day whether I wanted to play pickleball or whether I wanted to go to High Windy because I haven't done it in years. And for everybody that's listening, it's kind of a good probably hour and a half to two hour hike and it's steep.
[4:52] And so I decided at the last minute, it. Okay. You know what I'm going to do? I'm going to, I'm going to do a high windy. So I started like maybe 15, 20 minutes behind everybody else. And I took off. Right. And I'm like, all right, I'm going to see if I can catch everybody. And I pass people, I pass people, I pass people. And then all of a sudden I was kind of getting towards the end and there was this one person that was out there and I wasn't gaining that much ground on. I'm like, who is that person? And then finally I caught you right before the top and it was you, it was Kim.
Life Off the Grid
[5:28] And I was like, so impressed with you. You're like a little mountain goat. It was. And I think part of it is because, you know, you live in Colorado and you're so active and you're, you love the, uh, the elevation, but I appreciate you coming on the podcast because I love having lifestyle physicians and kind of trying to understand their journey and why they became a doctor to begin with and how you found the passion to go into plant-based nutrition. And I know you're doing wonderful things these days. So...
[6:01] Let's let's dive in. OK. OK. So first of all, where am I talking to you from? Where are you? So I am in Salada, Colorado. I used to live in Aspen, Colorado. And then we moved out to this 40 acre ranch to live on the land and to actually let me live the lifestyle I prescribe to my patients. So I go out and I, we live off grid, so I shovel my solar panels. We have a grow dome, which we grow our own food. I cut down trees for fire mitigation and use those trees to, we saw them, we split them, we use that wood to heat our house in the winter, and it's awesome. And we moved here because after 20 years of living in Aspen, Colorado, my significant other, he got hit by a car and he was an ICU and hospice nurse at the time and broke all of his bones in his body. And he had about, he was in a wheelchair for eight months and many year recovery. But part of this is so that he could work the land with me, work for two, for an hour, come back, rest for two hours, work for two, an hour, come back and rest. And he's gotten stronger and I've gotten stronger and it's just awesome.
[7:24] Wow. Yeah. I love the simplicity and getting back to the basics. Yes. And I would imagine that that is so enriching and fulfilling with just life in general that for most of us, it's just passing our by and we're not present and we're just always busy to the hilt. So just in hearing you say that, and I want to dive in deeper, but my first gut reaction is I'm really envious, really, really jealous. And I know, I mean, it can't be easy to make that transition to go from all the comforts to something that's kind of as outrageously out there as living off the grid and 40 acres and being responsible for everything. And so let's go back. So you were in Aspen, you said, for 20 years. What took you to Aspen to begin with? What were you doing there? Okay. So, well, I was born in, no, just kidding.
[8:30] I have always wanted to live in the mountains of Colorado. I started skiing when I was four years old and loved being in Colorado. I grew up in New York, went to, I went first, went overseas. I became a teacher of the deaf because I thought, I knew I always wanted to be a doctor. But I thought to be a good doctor, you should be a good teacher.
[8:55] And I love deaf education. I love the deaf community. And long story short, I got a master's in deaf education. I went overseas, worked in Sri Lanka for a couple of years with the Peace Corps, learning, documenting Sri Lankan sign language, things like that, came back and went to medical school. Well, let me let me stop you for a sec. Why? What was your fascination with the sign language and deafness to begin with? Something must have drawn you to that. Absolutely. So my brother is deaf, but he was brought up orally, so he didn't sign. But when I went to college, I wanted an easy A, and I was good at languages. I learned sign language, came back, I said, you're deaf, this is awesome. And he was like, no, I'm a junior high school short kid. I'm not deaf. He was very resentful of that. For a couple of years, he didn't like talking to me too much. But then he went and learned sign language and he's now a huge part of the deaf community. But I just love sign language. It's beautiful language.
[10:01] And I love the teaching. I went I went to work in Aspen, Colorado, as if when I came back from overseas, I interpreted for a few years, went to medical school and residency. Then I went to Aspen, Colorado, where I always wished I could live. I love living where I would vacation. It's just an awesome thing.
From Traditional to Plant-Based Medicine
[10:24] And in Aspen, I was traditional family practice for 20 years. I had several practices. I woke up in the dark. I went home in the dark. I never had a chance to eat or go to the bathroom during work. I was just working full-time and and very stressed and then when Derek my partner got hit with the car I was still working full-time and and I burned out but I also at the same time I was about 47 when I realized my mom had breast cancer at when she was 48 I was like well how do I prevent that.
[11:04] So I learned, I went and did some research, found the China study, found your father's books. I found a book. I watched Forks Over Knives. I started learning about healthy eating and I thought I'd been healthy. I was a Milky Way vegetarian from the age of 21 to 47. I was a Milky. OK, so Milky Way is what they have. They must have some sort of dairy in them, I would imagine. Oh, yeah. It's junk food, vegetarian. And I loved I was a cheese eater and I would probably eat. I was cheeseaholic. I ate cheese about five times a day. I struggled with weight from the time I was 13 to 47 when I stopped growing up and started growing out. And at the same time as I was like, how do I prevent the breast cancer? A friend of mine went to nutrition school and she said, give me a three day food diary to help her through nutrition school. And I did. And I thought she was going to come back like you eat better than 90 percent of Americans. And she came back and said, you eat horribly. And that's not the word she used, but it was horrible. So she made me a green drink that day. And I'm like.
[12:13] I never ate salad. I was like, I can't drink that. It had cucumber. I didn't even know what kale was at the time. And she made this and she said, drink. And so I didn't. I was like, oh, this isn't bad. And for a month I had green drinks and she cooked for me. I ended up buying her her kitchen and she cooked for me for a while. And my weight plummeted. My energy soared. My cholesterol plummeted. And I had just checked my cholesterol normally. But then a month later, I was training a medical assistant. So she drew my blood and it just plummeted. Everything changed. I mean, I had I would wake up in the morning like it's 5 a.m. Let's go for a hike instead of 5 a.m. I don't want to go to work. And my teeth, my gums stopped bleeding. My teeth look better. I mean, there was just there was so many things that happened to me. And as I was doing the research, I was like, why hadn't I learned this? What's going on? And I started using it with my patients in my traditional practice. But we had 10 minutes, 15 minutes at the most with patients. so I had decided to.
[13:26] Start Doc's Lifestyle Medicine when Derek got hit. His last name was Derek Olson and Kim Scheuer. So we started Doc's Lifestyle Medicine because he couldn't do his nursing and we started to live the lifestyle. And I got boarded in the first Lifestyle Medicine boards. I was sitting behind Dr. Greger wishing I could cheat. So what year was that? Oh God, was that 17? I think, I can't remember. It was about 2017. Okay. Okay. All right. Wow. You're sitting behind Michael Greger. He was taking the test too?
Transitioning to Telehealth
[14:01] Yeah. We were both in the first set of people taking the lifestyle medicine boards. Because I figured if I'm going to actually live it, use it with my patients, I better be certified and know what I'm doing. So I studied for it and took it and passed the first time, which made me happy, and started DOTS. And then we had planned to move here because, you know, I wanted something that was portable, but COVID hit, and I kept working a little bit longer to help my practice in Aspen out. Came over here, and at the same time, I...
[14:41] Anthony Massiello was working with plant-based telehealth. And I said, Hey, I'm interested if you ever have an opening. And he did. And that started working with them, love it. And that became Love.Life Telehealth. So I definitely want to dive into some of that, but before we do, I want to, I want to rewind a little bit. So 20 years in Aspen and you had several practices. Give me an idea of how robust these practices were. And I'm sure that you probably had what doctors and nurses working under for you for. Yeah. So at different times I had three different practices. I always had the practice in Aspen. I had one in Snowmass and one in Basalt, Colorado. So we had the Aspen one was very busy with tourists and visitors and we would see patients nonstop for hours on end, a lot of locals, but then a lot of walk-ins, you know, fractures.
[15:38] Altitude sickness, et cetera. And I had several docs working for me. Then in Basalt, that was more locals. That was a little bit outside of Aspen. And we would, I would see locals and have more time with them. So for example, I got lucky enough to see a person with diabetes at the end of my second to last patient. She was a new patient, and the last patient canceled. So I actually got to spend time with her and talk lifestyle medicine with her. And this woman who had been on insulin high doses within two weeks was off of insulin, and it was awesome so i decided i wanted to do more of that the snow mass practice was very much like aspen a lot some locals but a lot of visitors and you really it was funny because even if they came in with a cold i'd be like what's your diet like you know um they came in with a wrist fracture. I'd be like, okay, let's work on getting you stronger and healthier. Yeah. So tell me, I mean, running or having up to three practices, is that something that was, it sounds like it was all consuming. You said, you know, you woke up in the dark, you kind of went to bed in the dark or, or you shut off, shut off at night. Right.
[16:53] Was it was it was it was it something that financially was was profitable for you? Yes. OK. So it was profitable. And I was I was on call at the hospital. I was chief of medicine. I was chairman of the peer review committee. I was busy all the time. There was one February because I delivered babies that I had two days off for the month of February, which was on season in Aspen. And then I had 16 hour deliveries both of those days. And so I had burnt out not having, you know, that was before I even learned lifestyle medicine. But when I learned lifestyle medicine, I still was working too hard. And so I changed my lifestyle.
[17:35] That stress of overworking to, oh, can I afford to not make the money I was making in Aspen when I moved here? But to be honest, I can live simply and not make as much money and just enjoy life and schedule so that I can go out and walk my dogs in the morning. I can take an hour and a half break and take a hike at lunch and be out in the sun and get into nature and palm my head. And I'm a better doctor for it, I think. And I spend more time with patients because with Love Life Telehealth, we get a full half an hour or a full hour with the patient. Whereas in my old clinic, it was same as most doctors. You walk to the front desk, you take time to check in. Then when the room comes open, the nurse gets you and gets the vitals. The doctor gets in for 10 minutes, maybe to talk about a myriad of things. Now my patients get a full hour or a full half hour with me and I get to see their homes. Like if I have somebody who says, you know, my kitchen's really hard to deal with and to change. Well, walk me to your kitchen. Let's go see.
[18:45] And we'll go do a, you know, a pantry throw out. Yeah. And it's it's been awesome. It's been wonderful. Wonderful. Have you always... So one of the things I noticed when we were together for that week is just about everybody would sit during the lectures. You were always standing. You were in the back of the room, standing, stretching, balancing on one leg, whatever it was that Kim's doing.
[19:10] Have you always been not only high energy, but have you always been.
[19:16] Have leaned towards being a happy person? I have definitely leaned towards being a happy person. I have not always been high energy. When I was heavier, when I was eating poorly, I would spend a lot of my energy digesting. And so, yeah, I was called Taz at work because I'm always going from room to room and doing that. And I had my little Taz cup that my staff gave me. But when I went plant-based, hopefully plant-based and got rid of the junk and stopped having to spend so much internal energy fighting off what I was eating, I actually had more energy. You do not want to see me on. It would be a bad thing. Do you drink coffee or do caffeine or no? No, I don't. I, um, I have, I had fibrocystic breast disease and so that caffeine wasn't good for me. And I'm also one of those, uh, slow processors. So even if I had caffeine in the morning, it would not be good for me at night. And actually caffeine tended to put me asleep during the day and keep me up at night. So, um, water is my favorite drink luckily, and it always has been. So I'm lucky that way. Right. So do you, do you imbibe at all in alcohol? I do not. I would rather get my calories from chocolate, from healthy chocolate. Yeah.
[20:43] So have you ever done alcohol throughout your life? When I was younger, I did, you know, in college and things like that in high school, in high school and college. But I don't like the spins. And I don't like being out of control.
[21:02] Yeah. But, and it's to me, it's empty calories. I don't like necessarily having to drink things that I had to get used to. Like, you know, the first time you try a beer, it's like, or wine, it doesn't for most people, it's not an immediate love.
[21:19] Now saying that I did have to get used to eating greens and salads. And I changed my palate. And I absolutely love what I eat now. But if you told me that at 46 and 47, that I would like salads, that I would crave salads, I'd be like, no, no, I crave chips and, and chocolate bars. And, and, you know, I do have an addictive personality. So I can't have Milky Ways in my house anymore, because I would go straight back to it. And I feel terrible. And I don't want to do that anymore. I don't want to feel like I did before. You, um.
[21:55] You mentioned, help me, help me if I'm repeating this correctly. Sure. You said, was it your mother, you were 48 when your mother got diagnosed with breast cancer, or your mother was diagnosed with breast cancer when she was 48? My mother was diagnosed with 48. My mom and grandmother were diagnosed with cancer on the exact same day. My grandmother, colon, my mom, breast, the day before I was supposed to go up to medical school. So I packed up, I had my things packed up, drove up, came back, took care of them, then went. And so I postponed a little bit to take care of them. My grandmother ended up living in to 99. And my mother's still alive, which is awesome. So but I just didn't want to have to go through surgeries, chemo, radiation, or anything like that. So at 47, I thought, how do I prevent this? And learned a ton. I should have known about Dean Ornish's work, your dad's work. I should have known about it. And I didn't. I wasn't taught in medical school. I wasn't taught in residency. And to have to learn it myself made me unhappy because I spent years struggling with weights and other issues.
[23:11] Like I was a ski jumper when I was young. So I I have had surgeries on my knees. I thought I'd need knee replacements. Don't need them anymore. I have the damage, arthrosis, but I don't have the information. I don't have the arthritis. I don't have the pain. So... Learning that and realizing I could have treated my body better, treated my patients better, kind of made me unhappy with the medical profession
Overcoming Food Addiction
[23:39] for a while. Yeah, understandably. When you say that, you know, you are heavier, I mean, we're talking 20 pounds heavier. How much heavier are we talking? During my life, 50 pounds has been my highest, more than I am now. I'm about 100 pounds, which is, you know, a good chunk of what I weigh.
[24:00] And I did everything. I did Weight Watchers, Diet Center. I tried to starve myself. I tried bulimia, but I couldn't get myself to evolve, thankfully. I mean, I binged, but I couldn't purge, which is good because, you know, I got lucky that way, but I struggled with self-esteem regarding weight. I struggled with my weight. And at 47, when I started doing this, it just poured off. And then all of a sudden I was like, wait, I have to eat more. I'm losing so much that I mean, I need to eat a little bit more. And what a concept. It was just so amazing to not have to struggle anymore. And that pissed me off because I spent so much mental energy over the years dealing with being on and off overweight and up and down dieting and restricting. Now I don't restrict. I eat way more than I used to. I don't restrict at all. I love what I eat and I eat as much as I want all the time.
[25:03] It's kind of like for me, an alcoholic. I'm like an alcoholic or a cigarette smoker. I used to think, I wish I was an alcoholic. It'd be easy. I just quit smoking, drinking, or I wish I was a smoker. I could just quit smoking, but I need to eat. Well, that's wrong. Alcoholics need to drink water. They don't need to drink alcohol. Smokers need to breathe air. They don't need to breathe smoke. I need to eat. I don't need to eat junk.
The Importance of Self-Forgiveness
[25:29] And that change made a huge difference in my life. Yeah. Yeah. That's a pretty, that's a really nice perspective. You know, one of the things that I know that you are really good at is food addiction and tell like for the audience that's out there. I mean, it's, it's a real thing. I would imagine that in, in, from your research, what percent of this country has, you know, a food addiction? Um, yeah, A lot, a way lot. A true food addiction, I would say at least 30%, but I would think 70% have food.
[26:16] Overeating tendencies and eating improper tendencies. And we're surrounded by, conflicting information all the time. We're surrounded like, where are you getting your protein, you can't just eat plants, you know, how are you doing that? Or people like, oh, just have a little bit, you know, it won't hurt you to have a little bit. Well, for me, certain foods will make a difference. And it will hurt me to have a little bit. So I have to have a hard cut off at night when I for dinner, like I used to eat late at night all the time and wouldn't sleep well. And that's just a cycle that keeps making things worse. And so I have a hard cut off at 7pm. No matter what, I'm not going to starve if I don't eat after 7pm until the next morning, and I'll have water or whatever. But I also have certain things I just can't like, for example, cheese and chocolate and unhealthy chocolates, there are some healthy cacao's and chocolates, dark chocolates that are fine, that are not milk, but.
[27:18] A year into this, I felt great. And I went to Italy and I decided, hey, I'm going to I'm in Italy. I'm going to eat. It's going to be fine. And I had, you know, cheeses and a lot of oils and things like that. And for four days, I gained about 10 pounds. I felt like crap. I was like, oh, I cannot believe I used to feel like this and just stopped and had a great time in Italy with unbelievable veggies and fruits and, you know, whole grains, whole grains and things and legumes and stuff and ate back my weight, lost the weight, felt better. And I'm like, I'm never doing that again. It's just not worth it for me. It's just not worth it. Yeah. So like when you have a patient comes to you with food addictions, what do you find? What's the best way to counsel them to kind of overcome these food addictions? So there's lots of different techniques to use, and it really depends on their addiction and why they're addicted. I find a food diary does help for some for a short period of time because I used to not remember that I had the cake for breakfast and the cookies for lunch and the, you know, ice cream for dinner. That does help people first become aware.
[28:41] There are apps out there for more mindful eating. There are hard cutoffs like hard nose for certain people. That's important. There are groups out there. There's Overeaters Anonymous. Us there's a bunch of things there are medicines fascinatingly enough same medicines that you can use for stopping some alcohol addiction can be used i try not to use medicines because i don't like to have people you know changing one addiction for the other except for if they're, changing their food they're like for example if you are really needing to eat for me at night I'll go out and take a walk. So if you want to change that to some to a healthier addiction, like for me, my healthier addiction is now being out with my dogs and playing with them. And you know, so there's lots of different techniques we use with lots of different people. There's I surround them with positives. Like for me, when I started this, I watched a movie called Fat, Sick, and Nearly Dead, every week for a couple of months because that motivated me. We have to find what their motivation is, what their why is, why do they want to make this change, and really go deep. Not, I want to feel better.
[29:58] But why? Why do you want to feel better? Well, I want to be I want to see my grandchildren and be able to play with them and find out their why and then put that everywhere around the house, you know? Yeah. So that reminds them all the time. So each person is different, but there are some similar techniques we use. Yeah. Well, so in researching for this episode with you, and this is actually on your website as part of Love Life, I read that the Yale Rudd Center actually has a 27 questionnaire that people can take to actually find out if, in fact, you know, according to these questions, you do have a food addiction. Yeah. And there's another book that I used as a vital sign with my patients. It was called The Four Leaf Guide to Vibrant Health, which one of my co-workers actually wrote.
[30:53] Dr. Carrie Graff, she helped co-write that. And it is a very quick, a couple of minutes. You know, how many pieces of fruit do you have a day? How many vegetables do you have a day? How many processed foods? And it gives you a scale. And what I would use with my patients was look at the scale today. OK, you're a one leaf with standard American diet kind of person. Let's get you up to two leaf or three leaf or four leaf and see by just adding. I like to add in things rather than take things away. So add in a apple a day, then, you know, and add in more things. Or like when I brush my when you brush your teeth, go and do two pushups, add in some things. So these are, it kind of is helpful for patients to actually see, okay, when I'm a four leaf and I'm eating extremely healthy, my blood pressure is better, my weight's down. When I go back to a one leaf.
[31:48] It's not. So it's nice for people to connect things, which is fun. And then there's Dr. Greger's Daily Dozen app. There's lots of good options out there that are free. Yeah. You you mentioned your mother is still alive. Is your mother has she embraced whole food, plant-based nutrition? I wish I wish my family had. Yeah. My mom has her own issues with food, which probably came down to me. She was more successful at some of the unhealthy things I tried to do, but she's overall very plant strong. She could still be healthier. Yeah. You know, we all have our things.
[32:35] Absolutely. She's a wonderful person. And I learned a lot from her. And so that's good. And it's good to you know, you want your family to be as healthy as they can be. Physically, mentally and everything. And, but you can't live somebody else's life for them. You can be the good example, which I hope to be. And, uh, you know, people, I think being the example is very important. I can be very evangelical about it, you know, but that's not always the best way. No. Well, as we all know from Doug Lyles, some of his lectures, right. Right, right, yeah. Sometimes it's best to back off a little bit.
[33:21] Let's talk for a second about, so how long have you now been, I know you took the exam in 2017, but how long have you been seeing patients and kind of prescribing them a whole food plant-based lifestyle? So I started in Aspen before I left traditional practice where I started with my traditional patients. And I was known as Dr. Kale out there. People would be at the grocery store in Snowmass like, oh, you're with Dr. Scheuer too, huh? Because they would look at their baskets.
Embracing a Plant-Based Lifestyle
[33:55] But I really got to do full lifestyle medicine with my patients when I came to Salida and started living the lifestyle. I being able to live the lifestyle I prescribed to my patients. And it's great. It's just great. So it's been several years now. And I love the changes I see in my patients. Actually, during COVID, because I just moved here, I would walk the roads that I live in, and my neighbors would walk the roads. And I converted 11 families in my neighborhood to plant-based eating. And it's been a blast. I've gotten tons of people off medications just by walking the roads. And they would ask me, what do you do? And I would just tell them. And I think seeing somebody who lives the lifestyle, who's got a lot of energy and is pretty positive, has made a difference. And it's great now because our potlucks are easy for me. You know, I know everybody's going to have whole food plant-based foods there. So, yeah.
[34:52] Well, so you're, but you're on 40 acres. I mean, how many acres do you have? Are you on a road that dead ends or what? I mean, how does it work? Yeah, so we have nine miles. It used to be a 6,000 acre feedlot. I live actually on the 40 acres where the feedlot was. There's, everybody has 40 acre plots. So we have nine miles of land. Private roads, where we can, I can go hiking, I can go biking, it's all dirt road. But we also live, all of us live so rurally, many of us are off grid, that we help each other out. It's an old fashioned type of community, where no matter what's your background, what's your.
[35:35] Proclivity, your politics, your whatever, we all have to help each other out in the winter. If If somebody goes off the road, the rest of the group come and help and get them back on the road. Or if, you know, for plowing or for electricity, if electricity goes out and I'm off grid and I have electricity, they come over and they take showers at my place. And, you know, so it's a really fun community. Gosh, fun, fun. And it sounds adventurous. What kind of a vehicle do you drive? You have a four wheel drive like Subaru or what? What do you? Yeah. So I have that kind of vehicle and I have we have a big truck to to, you know, to go get our logs and things like that and to do work around the thing. We have a it's a it's a utility vehicle and we go, you know, it's great. We use it all on the farm all the time. I really feel like a farmer, which is so much fun because it's a different kind of lifestyle than I was before. I was a very, I'm still have the fun of seeing my patients and being intellectually challenged, but now I'm also physically challenged and it's really fun. Yeah. It's really simple. What a wonderful balance. Yeah. So you mentioned going on these, these walks and you've converted like 11 different family or helped, you know, get 11 different families to go plant-based. And many of them you said are getting like off their meds. Mm-hmm.
[37:02] That's something I want to talk to you about. Like, how often are you able to de-prescribe the meds that people are on? Because that's something that typically you hear, OK, you're gonna be on these meds for the rest of your life. I do it all the time. It's my favorite part. It used my favorite part used to be delivering babies. That's hard to do over Zoom. But now my favorite part is de-prescribing medicines. And so if you are on blood pressure medicines, if you're on cholesterol medicines, medicines.
[37:30] My partner was on five different medicines. And he when we started dating, I'm like, you have to eat. My house has to be clean. I don't care what you do outside of the house. I'm an addict. I'm a food addict. My house has to be clean. And he got off of five minutes, three blood pressure, two cholesterol meds after losing a lot of weight. And, you know, now he did have the crash diet, too, in the middle there. But he that's literally he got hit by a car right but he was already working he already lost 30 pounds and um instead of me not being able to put my arms around him now i can um and he's got bad genetics but we got him off of meds one of my neighbors here who has said i could talk about him the type 1 diabetic was on i think 13 meds when i met him and just by literally walking the street telling him to read certain books, you know, read how not to die, read, you know, and talking to him about stuff, and then helping him get off of his meds. He's on insulin, and half the insulin he used to be on.
[38:35] You know, so he's off tons of meds and it's, it's phenomenal. It's financially great for the patients. It takes away the side effects of the meds because as you know, plant-based diets, the side effects are feeling better, you know, and, but there's no side effects from the medications. And he was taking medications to combat the side effects of other medications. So we can get people off medications, not always completely, but we certainly can lower a lot. And for example, he's a type one diabetic. He's never going to get off insulin, but now he's on what's called a physiologic dose. He's on what you and I make. His diabetes doesn't work. So he's on a physiologic dose way lower than he used to be on when he was heavier
Deprescribing Medications
[39:19] and on different meds and eating unhealthy. And he was not only fighting the physiologic amount, but extra amount, you know, and so we have, I do every day, I see patients, and I can get them almost all the time lower, and often off, but we are still doctors at Love Life Telehealth, we still prescribe medicines, we do testing, you know, thankfully, we do have modern medicine for certain things. Yeah. You know, so we've taken down inflammation. We're helping.
[39:55] It's funny because people come to me and they're like, well, I'm eating healthier, but I'm not totally off my meds. But I'm like, OK, you're not off this medicine, but you have decreased your cancer risk. You have decreased your diabetes risk. You've decreased your heart attack risk, your stroke risk, your Alzheimer's risk. So these are all important.
[40:12] Yeah. You mentioned And, um, with your neighbor. He's now just taking enough insulin that, you know, that you are, you and I produce, which is, I think you call it the physiological dose. Like, what is that? How much is that? Do you know? Anywhere from 0.5 to one unit per kilogram per day.
[40:35] So it's, you know, he was probably taking, oh gosh, I have to recalculate it, but you know, 20, 30 units per kilogram, you know, more per day before. And now he's only taking a much less dose, which is great. Yeah. And that's saves you tons of money. Yeah. Yeah. Um, let's talk for a sec about, cause I'm sure this is something every one of your, your patients ask you is, should I be supplementing with anything? What do you, what do you, what are you finding that you, um, by and in large? Do you have the top three or four that you recommend people supplement with? Yes. So B12, one is that definitely plant-based eaters should probably supplement. We can check levels, but B12 is something that it's a micro made from microorganisms in the ground.
[41:29] We don't now eat our carrots dirty. You know, we don't take it out of the ground. Well, I do a little bit sometimes, but you know, we don't. And even then the soil is not good. So that's for plant-based eaters, but it's also for people over 50-ish who, even if they're non-plant-based eaters, if they're not getting it supplemented in another way. Meat eaters do get it because they feed the cows B12. They give that to them. So B12 is one that you definitely want to look at and make sure you're getting enough of. D is controversial, but in the wintertime, I certainly do D. In the summertime, I'm out in the sun, but in the winter, I'm bundled up in the mountains in, you know, at 8,000 feet. And so I bundle up and...
[42:14] Have a little bit D in the winter. Omega-3s. Can I stop you for a second there on the D? Because I think it's important for people to know that. So it is the D. It's kind of like almost like a hormone that's created in your body. And it's fat soluble, right? So you can kind of store it up in the summertime a little bit. And D is not from food. D is generally from the sun. And, you know, it converts in your skin. But we convert less as we get older, which is why when you're bundled up, you're not going to get as much. And also, we don't live on the equator in a loincloth anymore. So we're probably not getting as much as we should, even if we're getting some from the sun. So that's another one we can measure. Do you know what are you what are your what are the numbers that you like to see with D before you?
[43:11] It's controversial. Controversial. So below 30, definitely. There's no question. Some people like to keep it up in the 80 range. You know, it depends on my patient where they're at, what their health issues are. And so that, that I would talk to your individual doctor about. And again, the measuring it's important. I think some, some of this is more is important to measure. But we don't know. We also don't know if D is a, is a.
[43:41] Just a marker for are you getting enough infrared from being outside in the sun? You know, is that just a marker for that or not? And so I do suggest you get out in the sun and you get in, you know, it helps your sleep, it helps healing, we know that people who are in the sun more heal better from diseases and even surgeries than those who are not. So it's not that I want you to supplement something at the cost of something else. You know, I'd rather somebody not get up in the dark and get home in the dark and not have any sun exposure all day and supplement vitamin D that's helpful, but it's not, it's not what I want to do. Supplements are supplements. They're not to replace. Yeah. Yeah. Good point. Uh, okay. So B12 D and then what you were going to say iodine, is that right? What I heard definitely is very important. Um, as plant-based eaters, we tend to not eat as much salt. And so iodine is a very important thing. So if you're not having a sea vegetable like seaweeds or something like that on a regular basis, you may need to supplement iodine or if you're not having iodized salt. And if you're going to the restaurants and having salt there, that's usually not iodized.
Essential Supplements for Health
[44:56] Kosher salt is not iodized. So you've got to be very careful on that. And we find that that can affect thyroid. It can affect energy. We can check Check iodine levels and, you know, see if that's a problem. But that's something. So what I do is I just take a little kelp powder that looks like it's in a salt bottle. And I just put a little bit on my hand and lick a little bit every day. And then I get plenty that I need. Um, nice. It's something to pay attention to. And the other, the last one to think about, depending on your history is omega threes, DHA, EPA. And, you know, we still don't know enough about whether we need to supplement that or not. You certainly can get it from flax seeds, chia seeds, hemp seeds. You can get some ALA, which is converted. You can also, Also, there's some SDA in hemp seeds.
[45:47] Walnuts are a good source, but you've got to be careful. You know, are you end stage heart disease where you have to avoid too much fat or, you know, a diabetic where you want to avoid too much fat? You want, you need some fat because as you said, the fat soluble vitamins, A, D and E and K need a little fat to be able to be absorbed. And so a tablespoon of flat ground flax seeds a day is a great thing to do. But some people don't convert well and that we can also check levels. And if you have Alzheimer's, if you have a heart, high cholesterol, that can be important. So that's where you want to talk to a doctor who knows plant-based medicine, who knows how to deprescribe appropriately, who can help you tweak some of the foods. Foods and, and we at Love Life Telehealth have, we have doctors in all 50 states and DC. We all live the lifestyle that we prescribe. And so you can check to see who's in your state. I have 25 states, but not all 15 and not everybody loves the energy I have. So if you're in a state that I'm in, but you see another doctor there who has a story that you connect with better, go see them. It's, it's helpful. How many, how many doctors are there now that are part of a love life telehealth? Do you know? I think we have seven. I'm not a hundred percent sure. Um.
[47:12] I think we have seven now. They are wonderful. And that's the other wonderful thing about us. And I know how to say that in the right way. I am very strong in certain areas, but my partners are strong in other areas. So when you come to see me, if there's something, for example, you're in a state where only I'm where you I'm your option, but somebody is has, you know, like autoimmune. Well, I'm good at autoimmune, but we have a doctor in our practice, Dr. Chris Miller, who is brilliant at autoimmune. So if they come to see me, I can collaborate with any one of my docs and I love them. And I learned from them. We learned from each other and we treat our patients. So you don't get one, you get all of us in a way, which is kind of nice. That's really nice. You guys have that kind of a symbiotic relationship that elevates the whole practice.
Growing Your Own Food
[48:07] Tell me about your grow dome, where you're growing your own food. I'm fascinated by that. And who or what inspired you to do that? And what is that we're looking at right now? That is a cauliflower we had a couple of weeks ago that lasted a while. I made some really good food with that.
[48:33] So what inspired us to grow? I think there's a, that's our grow dome in the summertime. You should see it in the wintertime. So I have to go do my chores and go in shovel the area and make sure and water the plants and make sure everything's good. But we, we built this grow dome and it's huge. It's meant for about four people, but I eat enough for at at least three and a half. And so why? I wanted to live as much close to nature as possible. Well, first of all, things are getting expensive.
[49:06] It's really expensive out there. So to be able to grow our own food and everybody can do it, go on YouTube and just grow in your living room. I have a banana tree in my living room that is huge and I love it. And we have a little sunroom area in the house where we start some of our plants, but we have some, you know, lettuce growing and kale growing and cucumbers and all kinds of things and squash and things. And I just wanted to see how that would work. Plus it was a way for Derek to it, it was a good way to get back to nature, but also to help in his recovery. It takes a lot of work to, to grow, to learn how to grow one. And that's what he did. He's, you know, it gave, he learned how to do it and he does a great job I'm great at picking and eating it and he's great at growing it and we're learning and our neighbor it's interesting in my neighborhood.
[50:05] We have three other people who have grow domes, one for 25 years. And so we learned from them. Another one has a small one. It's very cute. And, you know, he's teaching his kids how to grow. It's just awesome. So it's it's very therapeutic to to grow your own food because you have to you have to move in different ways. You have to lift. You have to plant. You have to learn how to move in different ways with water. So it's been very therapeutic and we built that dome it was so much fun it's just learning new techniques give me an idea like how much does a grow dome like that cost are we talking ten thousand dollars or um we have a big one so ours was about 20 yeah but you can get anywhere from 8 000 up and and that's just this was growing spaces grow dome and in the colorado area and what our people our friends use some people have you know you can do different things you can make it really cheap. You can make it expensive. So yeah, I have expensive tomatoes, but it's also, you know, we've learned how to can, we have tons of tomatoes growing. So we pick them and we learn how to can. So we have. Tell me about all the different foods that you're growing right now in your house and the grow dome. Okay. So let's see grapes, bananas, um.
[51:26] That that are successful, you know, some things aren't successful because we also have a very short growing winter. That's why we did the grow dome, too, because that extends our winter. We have kale, chard, spinach, lettuce, cucumbers, tomatoes, all kinds of varieties of tomatoes.
[51:50] Cauliflower, cauliflower, broccoli, zucchini. Do you have any potatoes? Oh, yeah. Tons of potatoes, purple potatoes, white potatoes, everything. We got tons of potatoes. The reason I ask is everything that you've you've basically said outside the grapes and the bananas are kind of low calorie. So I'm like, where are you getting the vast majority of your calories from? Because it's not going to be the cucumbers, the kale, the tomato, cauliflower. So I eat a lot because I love to eat. I and it's good that I can eat a lot now and not be huge. I used to eat a lot and be huge. Now I don't eat a lot and be huge. I eat a lot and poop a lot. But I eat a lot of soy because of the breast cancer. I love legumes. I love Indian food. So I have lentils and tempeh and tofu and soybeans and peas and chickpeas. And so I get a lot from my legumes. I have a lot of grains, which we don't grow. I wish we did. but I eat a ton of grains every day because for me, that works really well.
Finding Balance in Nutrition
[52:57] Again, I'm using a lot of calories, just living. I use a lot of calories. And so I'll have- Will you say grain? Give me an idea of what kind of grains you're eating. I like wild rice, quinoa, red rice, buckwheat.
[53:12] Oh. You like oats, steel cut oats? Oats, oats. Oat groats actually are my favorite. I love oat groats. I love I love unhulled barley. I love, you know, as much the whole grain as possible. And so it's a lot of high fiber, which is great because like I said, I eat a lot, but I... My gut microbiome has changed to be able to poop a lot out, which is helps for breast cancer. I used to this is a little bit probably too much information, but I used to have a bowel movement once every three to five days. And I thought that was normal. Yeah, really did. And now I have every day a huge dump and then a couple more. And it's pretty funny because when we had our septic tank cleaned out, somebody said, how many people live here? I'm like, two. Like, really? Like, yeah, I'm plant-based.
[54:11] Wow. So, so the person that was cleaning it out was like, like, this is enough for what, eight people or something? Yeah. He's like, yeah, you don't want to wait five years. Clean out your septic tank every three. Oh, isn't that something else? Wow. Well, listen, I mean, all the fiber, all the water, the periostalsis, you know, cleaning yourself out. It's a it's a great thing and it decreases your risk of breast cancer because you're not reabsorbing toxins it decreases your cholesterol you're not it's coming through and going out instead of sitting in there and getting reabsorbed and so i now no longer worry about colon cancer i no longer worry about breast cancer which i did because they're linked and genetic and i've outlived my mom's i mean i'm 60 now i feel 20 i feel better than i ever did in my 20s and i mean That's one of the reasons I continue to do this. One, I love the food. So many people think that I'm living a restricted life. I am not. I love it. I eat more. I don't worry as much about health. We're all going to die, but my goal is to die after a huge hike, come back, go to sleep, and not wake up. That's my plan.
[55:24] I'm much more likely to do that now than I was before. A huge hike with your dogs. dogs how many dogs do you have i have three we have two rescued sled dogs um and of all things they're called medela and corona they're from the uh spanish litter beer um spanish beer litter, from the the sled dog company we rescued them from so rusty and corona and then we rescued a full husky from new york city who nobody in their 80s should get a husky puppy in new york city and that was my mother mom love you but and peppy loves you too but he loves living out here much better than he likes living in new york city and so yeah yeah yeah tell me um.
[56:13] Because I think this is one of the things that you try and do with your patients is.
[56:19] Are there any like blanket statements that you have found are imperative if you want to improve your relationship with yourself? If you're letting so many people really ultimately at a fundamental level struggle with that. And I'm wondering if you've found that there's anything that's, where do you where would you suggest somebody starts um forgiving yourself for being human for making mistakes but i have a mantra that i have told myself every night um and it's i wish for myself love love of myself love of others love from others i wish for myself peace peace of mind peace in my neighbor in my family peace in my neighborhood i wish for myself health physical physical, mental and emotional health. I wish for myself happiness, you know, to be content with what I have now. And to laugh every day. That's really important for everybody. And then I wish myself forgiveness for being human for making mistakes. And I wish forgiveness for other people and for other people to forgive me. And I say that all the time, because I'm hard on myself, We are all harder on ourselves than others. So what I'll tell a person that I know or a patient or a family member.
[57:42] If this was your best friend, how would you talk to them? Because you talk to yourself pretty negatively.
[57:49] And would you do that to your best friend if they had this happen or that happen? And so I try to get my patients to love themselves a little more. It's really, it's a big deal in our society. We do not...
Practicing Self-Love and Kindness
[58:03] Appreciate and love and forgive ourselves as much as we should still you want to be the best you can be but you want to also be forgiven i want us to be a kinder place kinder to others you know to animals to our world but to ourselves and being kinder to myself is treating my body with the respect that i would have wish my family treats their bodies with and their minds with i hope I hope that answers your question. It does. It does. It's great.
[58:36] You know, one of the things that I love on your website is you basically say that you want to share with your patients what you have learned so that they can feel younger, healthier and happier. Right. And isn't that ultimately what we all want? While we're here, enjoy it. Love it. Live it. We have such a beautiful world with wonderful people in it, wonderful nature, and take the time to breathe, to look, to see, to, you know, I think it's really important. We just zoom by everything and we miss the little things, you know, so spending time petting my dog, just taking five minutes to pet my dog helps my dog, but it helps me more, you know, helps my oxytocin, it helps my happiness. And those are my antidepressants and my antihypertensives are my dogs.
[59:34] Dr. Kim Scheuer, it has been a pleasure. I appreciate all the pearls of wisdom that you've imparted on all of the PLANTSTRONG podcast listeners today. I can't wait to hike another mountain with you sometime soon. And if I remember correctly, I didn't bring any water and you shared some of your water with me at the top of the mountain. And that was such a kind gesture. So pass it forward, people. Share water, share the life, and let's all grow together. Live the life that Rip lives. The way you improve the world, I'm honored to know you and your family. They've done so much to make this world a better place. I love watching you on Plant Bros and the Bros there. I love watching your sister and your mom on their channel. You know, it's just it's you guys bring fun and love and healing back to this world. So thank you. Yeah. Well, thank you, Kim.
[1:00:40] Hey, on the way out, can you give me a PLANTSTRONG virtual fist bump? And before and before we do, before we do, I got an email from somebody recently that said, I love at the end when you ask your guests to give you a virtual fist bump. Can you also ask everybody at home at the same time to give a fist bump? And like, well, there'll be this huge connected circle of fist bumps. So everybody that's out there ready, Kim, let's go. All right. Boom. Playing strong. And then what were you going to do? Sign off in the, in, in, in sign. Oh, I was going to say, I love, so I love the connection and the connectivity. Nice. And oh, so plant strong. So plant strong. Plant strong. Good. I like it. Plant strong. Plant strong. Plant strong. Plant strong.
[1:01:42] Bye, Kim. Bye, everyone. Thank you. Sometimes we forget that doctors are humans too, you know? Their lives and journeys are just as complex as ours. And the biggest takeaway that I got from Kim is that no matter how many curveballs are thrown your way, it is an absolute must that you keep taking care of you. That makes you a better partner, a better parent, and in Kim's case, a better doctor to her patients. That goes a long way in making the world a better place.
Closing Thoughts and Community Focus
[1:02:21] If you want to see if Dr. Scheuer practices in your state, visit love.life forward slash telehealth to learn more and as always i'll put a link in the show notes of this episode to make it super easy for you thanks everybody as always for listening and sharing these episodes with loved ones who may benefit remember let's focus on the right foods embrace supportive communities like this one and always always keep it PLANTSTRONG I'll see you next week.
[1:02:58] The PLANTSTRONG Podcast team includes Carrie Barrett, Laurie Kortowich, and Ami Mackey. If you like what you hear, do us a favor and share the show with your friends and loved ones. You can always leave a five-star rating and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And while you're there, make sure to hit that follow button so that you never miss an episode. As always, this and every episode is dedicated to my parents, Dr. Caldwell B. Esselstyn Jr. And Anne Crile Esselstyn. Thanks so much for listening.
