#291: Don Fries and Bev Bow - Rediscover the Joy of Living
Learn more about Healthy World Vitality Plan
Imagine a world thriving on health and vitality through whole food, plant-based living. That’s the vision Don Fries and Bev Bow are turning into reality—and you’re invited to be part of it!
Their non-profit, Healthy World Vitality Plan, offers education, cooking classes, and small-group support sessions to help you rediscover the joy of living - all for just $40/year!
Take control of your health, make meaningful connections, and join a movement dedicated to compassion for all living beings!
Key Episode Highlights
3:31 Meet Bev Bow and Don Fries
9:35 How Bev and Don's Relationship Developed
18:08 The Serendipitous Move to Sedona
23:08 Embracing a Whole Food Lifestyle
24:05 Their Mission to Build a Community of Support Around the World
33:51 The Vitality Plan and Programs
41:02 Developing Strategies for Lasting Change
50:56 Upcoming Events and Offerings - Spring Intensive starts March 9, 2025
54:38 Gratitude and Final Thoughts
About Don Fries
Donald Fries, MBA, is a co-founder of Healthy World Sedona, a 501(c)(3) organization that promotes improvement to human, planetary, and animal health and welfare through a whole food, plant-based lifestyle. He has a certificate in plant-based nutrition from the T. Colin Campbell Center for Nutrition Studies and eCornell. Previously he served the State of Oregon in legislative and fiscal policy management related to health and human services, at both the state and federal levels.
About Bev Bow
BA, MAT, is a co-founder of Healthy World Sedona, a 501(c)(3) organization that promotes improvement to human, planetary, and animal health and welfare through a whole food, plant-based lifestyle. She has a certificate in plant-based nutrition from the T. Colin Campbell Center for Nutrition Studies and eCornell. Previously she worked for Salem Health, a healthcare system in Oregon, in senior positions in Quality & Process Improvement, and in Human Resources Management.
Episode Resources
Healthy World Vitality Plan - Spring 2025 Intensive starts March 9, 2025
Learn more about our 2025 Plantstrong Retreat in Sedona, AZ - April 6-11, 2025
Learn more about our 2025 Plantstrong Retreat in Black Mountain, NC - Nov 9-14, 2025
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Full Episode Transcription via Transcription Service
I'm Rip Esselstyn, and you're listening to the PLANTSTRONG Podcast.
Welcome to PLANTSTRONG Podcast
[0:04] Imagine, if you will, a world filled with health and vitality that is fueled by a whole food plant-based diet. Our guests today, Bev Bow and Don Fries, are bringing that vision into reality, and you're invited to participate right along with them. We'll have a peek into the Healthy World Vitality program right after this word from PLANTSTRONG.
[0:36] PLANTSTRONG family, if you love delicious, clean, and satisfying plant-based meals, you are going to love this. Right now, when you spend $80 or more on any PLANTSTRONG foods, The shipping is going to be on us, and then to boot, we're going to throw in two bags of our epic sweet curry skillet burger mix, just as our way of saying thank you. This burger mix is next level. They're naturally gluten-free and made with whole ingredients that you can trust. Think oats, quinoa, seeds, and a flavorful blend of warming spices. There's no oil, no preservatives, no junk, just real food, real flavor, and real fuel for your body. And the best part, you can whip up savory protein-packed burgers in just minutes. They're perfect for meal prep, burger night, pasta night to make little round meatballs, or whenever you need a quick, satisfying bite. So if you're ready to stock up on your favorite PLANTSTRONG Essentials and score a clean, crave-worthy burger mix on the house. Head to plantstrongfoods.com and load up that cart.
[1:53] It's not too late if you'd like to join us for our upcoming retreat in magical Sedona, Arizona. It's April 6th to the 11th for a week of PLANTSTRONG buffets, epic hikes, morning yoga, and insightful talks from leaders in the plant-based movement. If you want more details, visit liveplantstrong.com and then join me for an incredible experience with the PLANTSTRONG team.
[2:23] Bev Bow and Don Fries share a mission, a mission of bringing whole food plant-based nutrition to the world through their nonprofit Healthy World Vitality program. It's a passion project they started after their retirement and their subsequent move to Sedona, Arizona, because they were looking for a way to give back to the lifestyle movement that had improved their lives and enrich their relationship. For just $40 a year, you heard me right, $40 a year, members of the Healthy World Vitality Program have the opportunity to participate in a wealth of programming and a super welcoming community. So many of us come to the movement inspired only to fall back into old patterns and habits because it feels easier or you just don't have the support that you need to make it sustainable. Well, Don, Bev, and their team of volunteer coaches and chefs provide that support
Meet Bev Bow and Don Fries
[3:27] and education in spades. Here to tell us all about it are Bev Bow and Don Fries.
[3:40] Bev Bowe and Don Fries, I welcome you to the PLANTSTRONG podcast. It's so good to see you guys. When was the last time that we were together? Can you remember? It was out at Mago Retreat. Well, I think we saw you. We didn't really have a chance to talk, but we were out. We were talking with Dr. Klaper and his wife, Elise. Yeah, so probably a couple years ago. A couple years ago when Dr. Klaper was there. And then a year or two prior to that, you bicycled up on your mountain bike, out of breath, of course, and you had lunch with us.
[4:19] And this was at Mago? This is the Mago. It was at Mago, too. That was also Mago. But that was probably like four years ago, four or five years ago. Yeah, it was a while.
[4:28] Yeah, yeah. Well, so for everybody that's listening, if you don't know Bev and Don, they're really doing incredible things with some of their 501c3 nonprofits to really build community.
The Journey to Plant-Based Living
[4:44] Everything is really devoted to their passion around a whole food plant-based lifestyle and, what they believe and what i believe and i think what the science shows a whole food plant-based diet can do not only for ourselves but also for the planet and also for the uh the animals that we share the planet with so i want to dive into to you know what you've done with Healthy World Sedona, what you've done with Healthy World Vitality Plan. But before we do, I'd love to like zoom out and better understand Bev and Don as people and how you got to where you are on your journey. So who wants to start? It has to start with Don because Because he's kind of, if it wasn't for Don's journey, none of the rest of this would have happened. So we've got to start there. Hey, I guess the early adopter. I mean, I grew up on a farm in Colorado, and it was meat and dairy all the way, right? And I even, I'm sorry to say, participated in some demises of a few animals along the way. And I was working out in Washington State, and it was after work one night.
[6:05] And we're reading this and this was in the 80s we were reading this extra story, deep dish pizza. And I had a big wedge of pizza in my hand and I was holding it ready to start consuming. And this big glob of cheese was just dripping off of the end of it. And I intuitively, I just said, there's something wrong here. There's something absolutely wrong with this. I didn't know what it was. Well, I ran into just a few months later, actually, a book by Dr. John mcdougall it was his first book called the mcdougall plan yeah and he talked about being a his first assignment as a young physician was on a plantation in hawaii and he he noticed that all the elderly filipinos and japanese people who were working on that plantation were hale and hardy well up to 100 still cognitively clear he said huh their children and particularly their grandchildren are, they have the same rate of obesity, diabetes, heart disease, cancer, dementia as the average American. So it's not genetics, folks. It's lifestyle.
[7:16] And he went to his fellow doctors in Hawaii at the university there in Honolulu and told him about it. And they said, ah, you're all bonkers. This can't be. He said, heck with you guys. I'm going to set up my own clinic in the north just north of san francisco and sonoma county and i i i literally switched once i read his book i just it's like going 60 miles an hour and you do a 90 degree at 60 i just switched immediately so you know you saw that big melting piece of saturated fat and cholesterol and salt slipping down off that pizza slice. Deep dish, no less. And you intuitively knew something was wrong. So bravo, good for you. High five. But my question to you is, but then how did you find Dr. McDougal's first book? I mean, because this is before the age of the internet. And did somebody refer you to it? Or how'd you find it? I read a fair amount of books, and I think I ran into it in a bookstore, actually.
[8:28] Yeah, I think that's how I ran into it. And it was in the Seattle area because I went up there quite a bit to meet with friends. And there's Powell's Bookstore, the best in the world right there. Oh, that's important. Oh, well, it's true. But there's another one up there. Oh, is there? Okay. Okay, anyway, and I said, well, this looks interesting because I just didn't feel like, you know, vigorous in a day-to-day thing. And what it said on the cover said, read me, read me. So I read it, and then I just adopted it, and then started living that lifestyle. I felt better. When I was a kid in college, I had even a little roll over my belt already, a roll of fat. And McDougall says well I can take a biopsy if you eat a piece of salmon tonight he said I can take a biopsy off your hip tomorrow uh the you know your hip fat and I'll find part of that salmon right there because fat goes to fat I'm going huh so anyway obviously that all melted away I went back to my high school trim and haven't looked back and then maybe Bev can take over.
Bev and Don's Relationship
[9:36] Because I met her later in my life. Many, many years later. Many years later. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, I lived, you know, certainly the standard American diet. I was married before. My first husband was a type 1 diabetic. He died at age 59. Yeah, and he didn't know what the doctors, what's the ones we had here speaking. Oh, yeah. Oh, you kind of talked about Robbie. and Cyrus Kambata. They're type 1 diabetics, both of them, and they thrive despite having type 1 diabetes. We ate what was recommended for diabetics, which was basically a paleo diet. It truly is. Meat, that was all good. Watch the carbs. Even watch the fruits. It's kind of like meat and vegetables. And my husband didn't like vegetables. So anyway, it was a meat and potatoes diet, basically. And so that's how we lived. Well, he sadly passed away from complications from diabetes at age 59. And so I was on my own for a couple years, which was, I wasn't sure how that would be. Well, ultimately, it was kind of lonely.
[11:05] And so anyway, I happened to meet Don at a music event in Salem, Oregon, where we were both living at that time.
[11:19] And he called me. I asked for her phone number. Yeah, yeah, and I actually gave it to him, which is hard to believe. But anyway, you know, I really like this guy. The one thing, though, was he was vegan. Not just vegan, but passionately vegan. And I worked in the healthcare industry, not as a clinician, but on the administrative end of a hospital system. And, you know, we were all about evidence-based medicine. And I thought I knew what healthy eating was, and I thought I did it. And so I thought, well, I like this guy, but this is clearly not going to work unless one of us changes. And I thought it would be really nice if he was the one that changed. And so I asked him, I said, well, is this your religion? What is this thing, this vegan thing? And he says, oh, no, it's science. And I said, so if I found science that contradicted it, you'd change? And he said, oh, yeah. And in my experience.
[12:34] Foolish wisdom I thought well this is going to be easy because I really thought I thought he was you know I thought he was well-intentioned but misguided and because I hadn't heard any of this stuff and so I decided to do my own research to see if I could salvage this relationship and get him turned around and so the first thing I read was the China study and that just blew my mind And I actually took it to the chief medical officer at the hospital where I worked. He was an avid reader. And I said, would you read this book and tell me what's wrong with it?
[13:17] And he did. And he says, can't find anything. And so anyway, that launched me on. I just said, OK. Yeah. So it actually boomeranged around, and you ended up being the one that got the science slapped in your face. I did. I just said, oh, no. Oh, no. But, you know, I haven't looked back, and I haven't regretted it a bit. But it was a shock. Bev, I just want to revisit a couple things, if you don't mind. And that is, so you say that your first husband died from complications from type 1 diabetes. So just for the audience that is curious, and I know I'm really curious, what were the complications we're talking about? Was it heart disease? Was it kidney failure? Was it amputation of limbs? What was it? Yeah. So he had several things. He had diabetic retinopathy, which is eye issues. That's the first thing we noticed in his research.
[14:22] And that was probably showed up in his late 30s. And he had laser treatments for that. So his vision was somewhat affected. But then kidney failure over the course of, oh, what would I say, 20 years. He had two kidney transplants. He had one, and then ultimately that one failed, and he had a second.
[14:49] And then, you know, diabetes is such an insidious disease. You know, when I see people, even the type 2 diabetes, where people take it so casually and just say, well, I'm on medication, it's all good. And I think people don't realize that under the surface all this other stuff is going on. And so he did have high blood pressure, and they were always managing these different things. I'm sure he had heart disease, although nobody formally said that. But ultimately, he had a stroke, and then they thought he would recover. But he he it it just he kind of had this series of small strokes that over the course of a couple of a couple of months took his life. Yeah. Yeah. And so how many years or how much time had passed before you you met Don and and he swept you away on your off your feet?
[15:56] Yeah. So it was a couple of years. yeah uh-huh uh-huh did you ever think in your wildest dreams that you'd find somebody uh i did not and you know and i'd been married 37 years so i um was terrified of the idea even though i was kind of lonely it was hard to imagine you know an intimate relationship with somebody or finding somebody that I could be simpatico with. And, you know, and he's a very different person from my first husband. So it's not like a repeat.
[16:34] But that's been the fun part, too. Yeah. Yeah. Well, how fortunate and how brave you were to get out there and, you know, to be curious enough to find somebody like Don and give him your phone number. I love it. So how long after you met, how long after, you know, you met, I think you said you met at a music event or music. And then, you know, you gave Don your phone number. Did you guys actually tie the knot? Let's see we met in 2010 we got married in 2012 so almost two years yeah yeah yeah it was a hay from a hayloft concert out in the countryside literally in the hayloft where this acoustic concert to uh to a wedding where her marimba band played the uh played the music that we danced to, She was part of a murmur. You're a beautiful man. So you worked in the hospital system. Don, what were you doing?
[17:38] Yeah, I was working with the state of Oregon. I was legislative and policy work, fiscal, mostly on the fiscal side, but at the state level and the federal, proposing legislation, things like that. And I love to write, as does Bev, which is why we're partly simpatico. We contribute, and she does the editing of our monthly newsletter for Healthy World Sedona.
Moving to Sedona
[18:05] And anyway, I enjoyed that work. And we both looked at each other, gosh, a year and a half after, two years almost after we met and said, are we at that place called Enough, right? I mean, we'd both been avid investors in 401ks and so on and so forth. And we said, yeah. So we literally pulled out of our respective employment on the same day. How'd that feel?
[18:37] Liberating. It was liberating. And we got married in a wonderful ceremony and then with a whole bunch of friends and then, Two days later, we were driving around Sicily in a Fiat 500, just going nuts, having an experience out over there. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Now, you lived in Oregon until 2015. Then you decided to pick up roots and settle in Sedona. Why in the world Sedona, of all the places you could go? Good question we actually decided before we got married before we got married we even bought some property before we we had no idea we were going to move to Sedona we we came here because I had a timeshare we had to use a week of and by the end of December you had to use it up yeah so we came after visiting Don's family in Colorado at Thanksgiving we came for a week and we were hiking and having a great time, and I just said, you know, I could live here. And Don says you could. I was very happy because I was looking at western Colorado and places I was familiar with. We kind of wanted to get out of the rain. We wanted to get out of the rain. But I wanted to grow fruit trees, and it turns out Sedona, it is possible. We have several that produce very nicely.
[20:06] And so she got out of peaches.
[20:12] Apricots we have plums now we just planted some more apples and nectarines yeah she, She said, well, fine, tonight I'm getting out my iPad and I'm starting to look around for bare ground. And she did. And the first place we came up to with another couple that we happened to, they happened to be in town that we knew. We drove up here and this place has this, you know, it's right up against the Forest Service line. It has an amazing view of Cathedral Rock. And you can tell just by the architecture here, this is an octagon. Yeah, it's awesome. When we do our quarterly potlucks here with all our vegan friends, or our wannabe vegan friends, we get 50 people in here easily. And that was the idea to build a place that was geothermal heating, cooling, solar thermal heating for the water.
[21:13] We did electrical heating for electrical generation with a whole bunch of solar panels, and we're basically net zero here but back to your question by the time that week was over we had made an offer on this property yeah we made a lowball offer which they took, well I guess we're moving to Susana so that so was the house was the house there or was it just a lot no it's just a lot ground up, Anyway, it was, yeah. So at the beginning of that week, we had no idea we were moving to Sedona. But at the end of the week, we were moving to Sedona. That's the way we are. She can make snap decisions just like I can, like I did, you know, when I looked at that cheese two months later. Boom, just changed. And we said, yeah, we can do this. It was a little crazy. But, you know, there is something about Sedona, and people say that. It's the vortexes, I tell you. I don't know what it is. But I did. So all this time when we're back in Oregon and my parents, I had aging parents at that time that I was supporting.
[22:34] And Don's down here as they're building this house. And I think, are we nuts? and then a little bit yeah and then i go come back to sedona for a little bit and i'd say no like it here and and yeah and so it's always felt right what what so don you mentioned that you were starting to develop a little a little roll over your belt and that went away bev and i would imagine since you've been eating this way you've
Embracing a Whole Food Lifestyle
[23:05] probably been about the same weight and your health has been stellar. Bev, what did you notice? Anything when you embraced the lifestyle?
[23:14] The biggest thing I noticed, I really didn't, wasn't overweight, but I had dealt with constipation for years and that was a struggle, you know, kind of digestive issues. And that's been much, much better. So, and then I think the other things I've, thing I've noticed is just energy level, and cognitive clarity. I think I just feel... Good all the time and i feel like uh i feel like i still have the i wouldn't say i've got the same energy i had when i was 20 i hear some people say that but i don't think that's true that's oh yeah you say that i've said that yeah well you might i still do i mean i'm bouncing off the walls.
Building a Community of Support
[24:06] It's great but i don't think i have the same energy i had when i was 20 but i feel darn good for 75 that's what i will say and she right and i might add she looks pretty good absolutely, well so tell me this um you guys have become quite the you know advocates for this lifestyle building community where did where did that spring from and why did you decide to do that And exactly when? Did you start in 16, 15, 17? Because that's a big undertaking to put on conferences and do everything you're doing. We were doing a I had started in Salem, Oregon, the capital there.
[24:51] A very slim version of this with potluck groups, you know, plant based and so forth. And we would do it once a month with a group of friends in Salem and also belong to a, I started a progressive film series there where several of the films actually were, you know, about health, health-related things. And Dr. McDougall actually was, and his son was a doctor, were stars at one of those. But when we came here, okay, so now we leave there and we said, okay, next chapter of our lives, this is chapter three. You know, two is our work life, and one through 20, or was the growing up, This is our pay it forward chapter, you know, for those that haven't seen that movie, fantastic film about, you know, we are all so blessed to have grown up with the, in the country we're living in, in the, you know, with our supportive parents and our friends and adequate food and shelter, et cetera. We need to pay it forward. And part of paying it forward is learning to live simpatico with Mother Nature, which is where whole food plant-based comes in big time, and also the pain and suffering of our animal and fish friends around.
[26:17] It's crazy. And you can help all three by doing this lifestyle change. So we decided to start a nonprofit. It and yeah i think it was more it evolved a bit more than that i think the first year we were here we just we knew we wanted to get involved in the community in some way but we hadn't figured out what but sometime in towards the end of that first year the whole plant pure communities.
[26:46] You know they started their pods yeah and they were looking for people that wanted to do that And so we said, well, we could do that. Join a pod. Yeah. So we kind of created a pod. And then we didn't know what the pod was going to do.
[27:02] And we thought we didn't want, we knew we wanted to do something around plant-based lifestyle.
[27:10] We didn't want to take over what somebody else was doing. So we went around town and met because there were a couple of potluck groups that were meeting. And we got together with the organizers of those and said, well, what are you doing? And we're kind of new in town and we want to see what we could do. And so we sort of tried to get the lay of the land here. And then we just brought a little group of people together and said, well, we'd like to do something around this. And what do you think? And these folks were great. We had a little dialogue about it and what do we call it? That's where the name came from because we were talking about health and Sedona. And I still remember somebody in this group saying, well, what about world, healthy world? And that just blew my mind because I thought I was just thinking about here. And the thought that, oh, we could have, like, a world influence and impact. And so that was eye-opening. And anyway, that's where the name came from. And then we kind of floundered around a little bit, had some meetings, and got together with people. And then at one of the meetings, we talked about, well, we could do a VegFest. That would be fun. Yeah. And easy. Very easy.
[28:39] Don and I had both gone to the Portland VegFest. Yeah, several times. Yeah, several times. And, you know, it's a great event, a huge event in the convention center there. But so we, you know, I think about four other people went up to the Portland VegFest just so they could experience what that was about. Might have been one of the ones that your dad spoke at because we heard him speak there. And I remember him clearly in one of them saying he'd stop three or four times during his talk. Rick knows what he stopped to say. And he puts his finger up and he said, no oil. He would just stop and say that. And we're going, okay. Yeah. Yeah. I wasn't happy to hear that, actually. But anyway, I thought, oh, one more thing.
[29:28] But so anyway, that's how we ended up starting to do the VegFest. And Portland also had a health and nutrition conference for medical professionals. So we kind of modeled it after their thing on, of course, a smaller scale, but also a different scale in one sense that the Portland VegFest, like so many.
[29:51] Are the vendor fair is, you know, it's a lot of vegan junk food is really what it is. And I think they really come out of the... The concern for animals. So whatever protects animals. And we wanted to stay true to the whole food plant-based message. So our vendor fair, which was of course much smaller, we put those requirements on it that it needed to be plant-based, no oil, et cetera, as well as vegans. Yeah. Well, nicely, nicely done. So you produced the Sedona VegFest and the Sedona Health and Nutrition Conference for years. Have you reintroduced that after COVID or has that remained online? What's the status of those things? I'll take the first shot at that. You know, we we noticed because, you know, and thankfully, the the Zoom technology had gotten better. And I said, it's so easy just to talk to people even way across the country. Yeah. All the time. And we're talking with you in Texas. And and let's let's expand this. And we noticed that the people and we had a California group join us and they and wherever wherever people were involved.
[31:17] Because we offered support every month, and we offered, I think at the time it was a 10-week program, now it's 11-week, across all the parameters of the Blue Zones. Nutrition for two weeks, exercise for two weeks, restorative sleep for two weeks.
[31:35] Meditation, what am I trying to say? Stress. Stress reduction for two weeks, and community for two weeks. Okay, we study all of those in depth for two-week sessions for each of those five. And all of those factors work together, we found, and the Blue Zones have found just organically, to... And to make you likely to achieve 100-year age with cognitive clarity, with physical movement, et cetera. So we said, well, this is really good. And because we supported people not only during the 10, 11 weeks, but we supported them every month with programs.
[32:22] We found that their recidivism rate, the rate at which people fall back and out of it because their family doesn't agree with them, and, you know.
[32:31] People think I'm strange, whereas now they have that community part, the fifth part that I mentioned, is very viable and very real. We've become good friends with a lot of the people who were in their small groups, because we purposely keep the group small, 10 to 12 people, and with the trained coaches who are all living, each of them are living whole food plant-based themselves. And so the continuity uh and the was really good yeah i think uh so we we are asked i probably get asked every every week by somebody around town sedona small town so you're going to do veg fest again and uh yeah the answer is no we i mean we wish somebody would do veg fest again but we're not going to do it. And I think to Don's point, in terms of what we kept seeing after the VegFest was we would run into people around town a few months later and they'd say, you know, that was so awesome. And I was doing it, but, you know, I just, I couldn't keep it up for whatever reason. Yeah.
[33:44] It oftentimes I'd run into them at the meat counter, you know,
The Vitality Plan and Programs
[33:49] and they'd be, they'd look at me sheepishly. And so we just thought we only have so much energy and time and let's put it into something that seems to support people. Yeah.
[34:06] So ergo healthy, Healthy World Vitality Plan and all your, and all your coaches, the 11 weeks, the different programs within it that you mentioned, the nutrition, the community building, restorative sleep, what was it, stress management. It's all fantastic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very, very cool. Yeah, I love, you know, I think it's so important that as, you know, when things happen, you figure out a way to pivot and do something else. And you guys have done that really, really well. You, you know, Bev, I read a blog that you recently, or an article that you recently wrote for your monthly newsletter, basically about less tongue biting and more listening. And there were some great takeaways. Would you share with the audience? Because I think that they might be able to get something from it. Yeah, well, it was kind of this, well, my writing is usually, is there something going on in my head? And what was going on in my head was I had been to a local, a meeting of local women, and it was actually a book group meeting, and.
[35:24] They, and I didn't know the, well, I think I knew a couple of the women in it, but most of them I didn't know, but, you know, these are women around my age. They're probably 70s and the the first 15 minutes or so as people gathered and it was just informal lovely time in somebody's home was spent on everybody catching up on everybody's ailments and this is this is happening more and more in our age group right uh and they uh you know and it was their ailments and they were tracking their family's ailments and how's so-and-so doing after his surgery and how are you doing with your new drugs? And, and so this happens a lot and happening more and more. And I just, I do find myself biting my tongue in that situation because I want to say, you know, there's, there's an alternative to this. And yet I know that.
[36:30] It would not be a welcome comment and it's not going to make a difference. And it just, I was just pondering that, that kind of frustration and thinking, thinking back to something I've learned many years ago and have to remind myself of, which is people don't change by being told information that they, they really don't. In fact, it tends to create resistance because they feel like somebody's trying to change them. And, uh, I really like, I've always liked the work of Carl Rogers as psychologist who, who talked about and taught about active listening where the point where that one of the things that does allow people to change is being heard and understood. And I mean, truly active listening. And and I think we often think active listening is where somebody says something and, oh, you can paraphrase it back because we've learned those techniques. But he makes a differentiation. The example I like to use is if you're in a conversation with somebody and they're they're sitting on one side of the table and you're sitting on the other and you're talking about this issue in the middle, you disagree on.
[37:50] And it's standing up and walking around to their side of the table and truly seeing it as they see it. And it's at that point they feel heard. And at that point they quit having to be defensive and open up to maybe hearing what you said. Want to say or have to say, but it's tricky because if you, if you do that only with the intent that I'm going to change them, you know, that people get that. I mean, you have to truly be willing to see it from their point of view. And the risk that comes with that is you might be changed and, you know, and that's threatening. So it's a hard thing to do. But anyway, so that's what I was pondering, because I think so often, as a plant-based advocate, I just want to tell people. I want them to know. I want them to understand. And thinking, okay, take a step back. Why don't you try to understand? And then we'll see what comes out of that.
[38:56] Yeah. And, you know, because you want to tell them right up front, did you know that 80 to 90% of all chronic conditions, you know, obesity, diabetes, heart disease, cancer, is likely preventable. There's no guarantees, but it's likely preventable through, you know, this lifestyle. Rather than ask that question, go around to their side of the table and say, well, I just heard you say that, you know, don't think you're getting enough protein, you know, that it's an incomplete diet. And, you know, and I truly heard you say that. And that's a valid concern because that's the common American ethic out there is that where you get your protein, your calcium, and la-di-da, you're so good. Now the person is at least heard. They feel like they've been heard. Whether they ultimately change or not or follow your example is totally their volition. But you haven't been preaching to them. Well, and I think it's delving even deeper. Not only did I hear you say you're concerned about protein, but what does that mean in your life? You know, what's your concern about what will happen? So that, because I think it's like really hearing on an emotional level, not just.
[40:19] Yeah. I mean, this obviously is a very nuanced, um, it's a nuanced way of listening and a, and a strategy to try and, um, you know, figure out a new, a new listening technique and all that. I find that like, you could go around to their side of the table and sit next to them and say, so I heard you say that you're concerned about protein. Tell me how much protein are you currently getting?
[40:47] Yeah. And I can guarantee you, they have, well, I have no idea. I just know that you can always kind of like put it on them a little bit and
Strategies for Lasting Change
[41:00] then say, well, this is how much you actually need. And, you know, but nobody really wants to be educated. So sometimes when you ask them, pertinent questions like that, it kind of does open the door a little bit, but so many different strategies it's wild i usually i usually it just depends upon who i'm dealing with what their personality is like you know um it's typically a game day decision when i'm dribbling down the court yeah yeah yeah you're a situational interviewer and and that's that's a really good skill we ask our coaches at the beginning of 11 each 11 week session that we do twice a year we ask them to essentially tell all of the 12 people that are in front of that or on their zoom call that this is the uh by the end of 12 weeks we want you to become co-coaches of each other and what we have and i tell our coaches is we want you to always ask yourself to use this acronym each time you find yourself talking during a coaching session and it's the acronym WAIT, W-A-I-T. And what that stands for is why am I talking? This is the coach talking.
[42:16] The coaches should be listening and as the 11 weeks go on, listening even more rather than, you know, just preaching. You know, it's really good. Yeah. I'm just taking some notes because I like that. Wait. I don't remember it. So you guys also, you have all these these clubs that you put on. I guess it's as part of Healthy World Sedona. Tell me about some of the different clubs you have. Yeah. So this is this is a new part of our vitality plan. And, you know, one of the things that happens is people really like being part of this online community because they've made friends. And we have some people that have gone through our 11-week intensive five and six times. And I don't think it's because they're not getting the concept. I think it's because they want to still be a part of this community. Community and come together with people we do upgrade the the uh the content every once in a while and and bring more and more content but but yeah but they want to they want the community yeah so anyway this was a thought on okay we and we do the what we call lunch and learns which are you know it's either cooking demos or experts be somebody like yourself that would come and.
[43:43] And give an hour presentation at lunch or Q&A. But people just, they want to just be together with other people who are living this lifestyle. So we thought, well, people have book clubs, they have film clubs. And so anyway, starting this January for our Vitality Plan members, we started these online clubs and they each meet once a month. And one's a book club. One is a film club. One's a podcast club. That's a podcast right there. Here's what they're talking. Coming up February 19th. Do not, do not want to miss that one. Oh, it's going to be really good. It's going to be awesome. And the last one is a recipe club where people just talk about and share recipes. I think they're talking about condiments. This um yeah coming up so it you know it's it's really just an opportunity to extend this community experience and uh we didn't know how it would work they just started this and in in january so but so far so good yeah yeah what um you know obviously you you used the word earlier Don recidivism I think that the goal The goal.
[45:12] With what I do, the goal with what you guys are doing, Dr.
[45:16] Gregor, Neil Barnard, everybody is what can we do to what can we do to clap for everybody? What can we do to reduce the recidivism, the rate at which people basically, you know, fall off, fall off the wagon with with whole food plant based. And so, like, what habits have you found over the course of you guys doing this work best for lasting lifestyle changes?
[45:40] We one thing we ask them and our coaches ask them to do the participants is you know if you're you know you're saying geez i'm not really motivated today well one of one of the people that's in the class with you lives just a couple of miles away and you you say i'm about i'm a i just i don't feel like they'll say get your butt out the door with your tennis shoes on we're going for a walk or i i don't have a recipe i i i'm really kind of bored with i don't even know how to use, spices as well somebody will say hey because i know you and i like you and i've bonded with you i'm gonna even if i'm two states away i'm gonna give you this recipe and i'm gonna walk you through the process so they have this community they can rely on and the recidivism is vastly reduced because they have friends, people maybe in their personal sessions that they do for 11 weeks, we don't record those because they talk about, well, maybe I've had cancer or I have this or I have that. These are personal things you don't necessarily tell the world.
[46:47] But you've opened your soul a little bit to the people in those groups or you're bonded with them. And now you're on this journey together, whole food, plant-based, and you're not perfect, but by golly, I'm going to get there. Or I'm going to be consistent. You know, um.
[47:07] I couldn't agree with you more as far as just the accountability.
[47:11] The community, feeling like you're not alone. You can pick up the phone, get on the computer. You can connect with somebody that's part of the group. It's one of the reasons why when I wrote my first book back in 2009 and I had the six-week program and I had everybody, I assigned everybody a firefighting buddy. And you were going through this experience this journey together just like you know as a firefighter you never go into a building by yourself you always have to have a buddy so it's the same thing going into this this let's call a fire right yeah this is a fire it is it truly is you're you're going to get burned and you're going to get get some scars along the way And you're going to get all the little demons trying to burn you at every turn. Yeah. Yeah. And you're slowly going down in flames, which is the worst way to die. Why not just, you know, be relatively healthy and vigorous and then two weeks before you die, you know, you know, whatever. You're not feeling too good at 105 and then you conk over dead. Now that's the way to live. Yeah. Yeah.
[48:20] So I just want to let people know that, you know, if you're if you're interested in being part of healthy world, the healthy world vitality plan slash I guess it's healthy world Sedona. What do you charge like a meager, like forty dollars a year annually? I mean, it's like three bucks a month. Give me a break. Right. Yeah.
[48:44] Incredibly affordable it's the best deal in town yeah best deal in town and i just want to give people an idea like so this is this isn't going to air probably until march so this february will be in the rearview mirror but i want to give people an idea like in the month of february all the different activities and clubs and offerings that they have so you you start out by saying february's black history month love that on two two um in honor of national heart healthy month you guys had a healthy heart cooking class right that's fantastic that's that already happened on two five you had victoria moran who just wrote a book age like a yogi like she's one of the original gangsters uh you had dr akil tayher telling his wonderful uh story about open heart that was a lunch and learn i had him on.
[49:43] The podcast he's fantastic you hosted a screening of chrispiracy uh on the 12th of february how was that i haven't seen it you recommend it yeah so that's what our film club it was just the film club members who watched it and we met last night to talk about it absolutely recommend it it's very provocative it's fascinating and um it makes you think about stuff that you had no idea was out there yeah yeah it's it's chewing at the roots of uh misinformation in our religious cultures around the world not just judeo christian but all religious cultures yeah the primary question is is there an ethic is there an ethical way to kill an animal and how would jesus do.
[50:29] That if he was killing an animal um very scary and yeah well what's interesting you know kip anderson who was you know one of the filmmakers behind that he did cowspiracy he did see spiracy and um he's really got a knack for for kind of diving into these tough issues right that that uh that he wants to bring to the surface and for people to really explore.
Upcoming Events and Offerings
[50:56] Uh on february 13th which just happens to be today that we're we're uh we're um recording this podcast you're going to have the esselston foundation and brian hart how to get the men in your life off of dairy i'm sorry off of me and your mom and your dear sister no no just jane or just jane i'm sorry yeah just jane today yeah yeah yeah and then february 19th you're having your podcast club and i'll be i'll be joining you for that one and then on the 26th of february you have the recipe club where you'll be diving into creative condiments so anyway gang um it's it's it's really impressive all the the um the effort and the different offerings that you guys are offering uh through both of your your non-profits.
[51:45] Cool stuff. Yeah. And maybe I could just share, because I think this gives a sense of it. This was a little thing written by one of our members just about what the experience was for her. She lives in California.
[52:00] She's saying, I'm writing to express my gratitude and exuberant endorsement for the Vitality Program. I have been on a challenging journey for the past several years due to some severe chronic health issues and have struggled to find tools to heal myself in a holistic way. I felt very alone in this process, trying to communicate with doctors and find appropriate resources, spending hours on the Internet trying to figure things out. I have been in desperate need of support. Enter the Vitality program. I'm currently enrolled in an online class wherein we break down several different elements of holistic wellness, including personal vision and goals, diet, movement, and community. This program has given me a sense of joy and direction again in my life, and most importantly, hope. I now see a path out of chronic illness and a way for my body and I to be friends again. It's given me the quote excuse that I need and the push to finally show up for myself and start taking care of this corporeal form the community of folks in my program have been such a lovely resource and and font of encouragement wisdom experience and ideas I think for me that has been the biggest piece to be able to feel held and supported by such a wonderful group of people with like minds, people that are accepting of me and yet also pushing me to grow and challenge myself too.
[53:27] Cindy, the coach herself, is such a treasure, and I feel like she's like having Google for wellness in your back pocket. I highly encourage anyone who is wellness and curious or struggling physically, mentally, emotionally to get connected with the program. Make an investment in yourself. It has done wonders for me, and I'm so grateful that this program exists. Anyway, that's kind of what we hear from people. Often. Yeah. So beautiful. So beautiful. It makes it all so worth it, right? Helping people and changing lives. Right. Fantastic.
[54:08] Yeah, I heard a guy yesterday tell me that he learned everything he knew about nutrition from Dr. Utobe. YouTube. That's right. And there's a lot of confusing things out there on YouTube. Oh, aren't there so? Yeah. Magical pills. I've heard about them. Yeah. Go ahead. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Don and Bev, I want to thank you guys for all the
Gratitude and Final Thoughts
[54:37] fantastic work you're doing. You know, you're building, as you guys like to say, you're building healthy, vibrant communities and you're adding for people that want to add years to their, their, their lives and life to the years. You know, that's what it's all about. Any last words from you two before we sign off? Just want to echo what you just said. We are so grateful to you, to your whole family, you know, the pioneers in this movement, because I think, you know, we're kind of babies compared to people like your dad and some of the other folks out there that have maintained their commitment and support steadfastly against all kinds of pressures for so many years. And so we're absolutely grateful.
[55:31] Without people like you, your family, and the other amazing leaders out there, we wouldn't be able to do what we do. So much gratitude. Yeah, we just wanted to say our next round, our next 11-week session starts March 9th. March 9th. Good point. Yeah, if this airs before March 9th. If it airs before March 9th. But even if it doesn't, even if it's like one week later, but somewhere in there, they can still jump into an 11-week session. Go to hwvitality.com and pay your $40, and it's the best thing, the best investment you can make. It really is. And meanwhile, and just like we're having our quarterly potluck a week from now on Sunday, and we're having about 50 people here, and we encourage them all to just embrace each other. If you don't know the person next to you, say hello. So my name is build community, embrace everyone around you, because that's certainly beyond nutrition. That's one of the five factors of optimal human health. And we want you to be as vigorous and healthy every day that you live, hopefully to 100 plus. That's our goal. Yeah, that's a great goal. Great goal.
[56:52] Well, as we sign off, I'd love for you guys to give me a virtual PLANTSTRONG fist bump. And as Bev likes to say, let's do it for the people, for the planet, and for the fellow creatures. PLANTSTRONG. Boom! PLANTSTRONG.
[57:08] Thank you, Rip. So good to talk to you. You too. Thank you, Bev. Thank you, Don. All right. See you in Sedona. In Sedona. In Sedona soon. Bye.
[57:18] As Bev and Don mentioned, their upcoming 11-week intensive starts on March 9th, but you can join the group anytime for just $40 a year. If you want to learn more, just go to hwvitality.com, or you can click on the link that I'll provide in today's show notes. And as they say on their website, it's time to rediscover the joy of living. Thanks, as always, for listening and sharing the podcast. I appreciate the five-star reviews and all the wonderful feedback. Word of mouth is always the best marketing tool for us here at PLANTSTRONG. And until next week, always, always keep it PLANTSTRONG.
[58:13] The PLANTSTRONG podcast team includes Carrie Barrett, Laurie Kortowich, and Ami Mackey. If you like what you hear, do us a favor and share the show with your friends and loved ones. You can always leave a five-star rating and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And while you're there, make sure to hit that follow button so that you never miss an episode. As always, this and every episode is dedicated to my parents, Dr. Caldwell B. Esselstyn, Jr. And Anne Crile Esselstyn. Thanks so much for listening.
[58:49] Music.
