#296: Dominick Thompson - Eat What Elephants Eat for a Strong Body and Gentle Spirit
Dominick Thompson, author of Eat What Elephants Eat
What if your plate could tell the story of your past—and shape your future? Author and plant-based advocate, Dominick Thompson, returns to the podcast to discuss his new book, Eat What Elephants Eat and explore his deeply personal journey of change.
Growing up on Chicago's West Side, Thompson became involved in the drug trade, leading to his imprisonment in his early 20s. It was in prison that he resolved to adopt a lifestyle that caused no harm to other beings. His mantra? “If it requires harm, then nahhh.”
His book, Eat What Elephants Eat, intertwines his personal story with practical guidance on how you can also adopt a plant-based lifestyle, featuring eighty simple vegan recipes and meal plans. He also discusses the deeper meaning of food as a bridge to identity and community.
Why elephants, you may ask? Well as you get to know Dom, you’ll understand why the elephant is his “spirit animal,” of sorts. It’s big, powerful, and yet gentle and mysterious. It’s also the largest land animal that eats plants. (And no one will ever accuse an elephant of being weak.)
This isn’t just a recipe book, but a manifesto of sorts on how to live a life that is truly connected to your values.
About Dominick Thompson
Dominick Thompson is a leading voice in the ethical vegan and No-Meat Athlete movements. An Ironman triathlete and social entrepreneur, Dom reentered the workforce after his imprisonment and began competing in endurance races, including marathons, triathlons, and ultra-races. He eventually became an executive at a leading healthcare company, where he saved enough money to launch Eat What Elephants Eat, an online nutrition and wellness program that gives subscribers a personalized plant-based plan with daily meal recommendations.
Episode Resources
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Full Episode Transcription via Transcription Service
0:00] I'm Rip Esselstyn, and you're listening to the PLANTSTRONG Podcast.
Introduction to Dom Thompson
[0:05] What if your dinner plate could tell the story of your past and shape your future? How cool would that be? Author and plant-based advocate, Dom Thompson, returns to the PLANTSTRONG Podcast to discuss his new book, Eat What Elephants Eat, to explore his deeply personal journey of change. And I want you to know that this isn't just a recipe book, but it's also a manifesto of sorts on how to live a life that is truly connected to your values. I'm going to have this powerful story along with some of his delicious recipes right after these words from PLANTSTRONG.
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[1:42] If you're looking for the perfect excuse to invest in your health this fall, both personally and professionally, start planning now for the PLANTSTRONG Black Mountain Retreat. It's November in the stunning Blue Ridge Mountains of North Carolina. Not only will you spend five powerful days immersed in PLANTSTRONG living, movement, and connection. But if you're a healthcare provider, you'll also earn continuing education credits that are included with your registration. That means it's not just a retreat, it's a professional investment. This is your chance to recharge, reconnect, and return home inspired with the knowledge and support to lead by example. Spots are limited and November will be here before you know it. Head to plantstrong.com backslash retreats and start planning your PLANTSTRONG escape right now.
The Elephant Connection
[2:37] Eat what elephants eat. Why elephants, you may ask?
[2:43] As you get to know Dom Thompson, you'll understand why the elephant is his spirit animal. It's big, it's powerful, and yet somewhat gentle and mysterious. It's also the largest land animal that eats plants. And no one will ever accuse an elephant of being weak. A little over two years ago, I had Dom on the podcast to share his very incredibly intense and personal journey. Growing up on Chicago's West Side, Dom became involved in the drug trade that led to his imprisonment in his early 20s. And it was in prison that he resolved to adopt a lifestyle that caused no harm to other beings. and his mantra, if it requires harm, then nah. His book, Eat What Elephants Eat, intertwines his personal story with practical guidance on how you can also adopt a plant-based lifestyle, featuring 80 simple
Dom's Personal Journey
[3:49] vegan recipes and meal plans. We also discuss the deeper meaning of food as a powerful bridge to identity and community. Dom's strength is rooted in his empathy, and you'll hear all about that today. So please welcome back to the PLANTSTRONG Podcast, Dom Thompson.
[4:12] Dom, my PLANTSTRONG brother, welcome back to the PLANTSTRONG podcast. Thank you for having me. It's always a pleasure to connect with you, brother. Yes. Well, and we haven't connected for almost two years to the weekend because it was two years ago that we invited you down to be part of Team PLANTSTRONG for the 5K half marathon or the full marathon that was taking place here in Austin that weekend two years ago. And I can't remember, did you do the half marathon, the full marathon, or the 5K with me? I did a 5K, yeah. Yes, you did. But I'm down. You can put me on record. I'm down to do it again next year with you, even do a half or a full. I'm down to do it next year, too, as well.
[5:02] Because we had a good time. It was a great turnout. Those of you who are listening, really great time to have like-minded folks for the amazing PLANTSTRONG team and those that may not be a part of a team i had a really great time meeting, everyone that's a part of that austin community it was really fun yeah yeah yeah it was it was great thank you um and this year they just had it this last weekend okay and i think it was 21 degrees the morning the morning it was cold yeah yeah it was cold when you and i did it uh but 20 it wasn't 21 I think it was 35 when we did it but yeah yeah it's I think that's gonna be the norm going forward unless they put they should push it a month ahead so people can have a more comfortable race now yeah yeah I don't think that's gonna happen so tell me where are you today where am I talking to you from sure yeah I know it's like where's Dom like I.
[6:05] You know, I was just telling my people at my publishing team, I've logged the last three weeks, myself and my fur kid, Rock, we've been on the road the last three weeks doing some press for the book. We logged over 50 hours in the car alone during the drive because what a lot of people don't know about me, I don't believe in crates. I don't believe in kennels. I don't believe in doggy daycares in terms of leaving my fur kids.
Film Project Announcement
[6:43] So if I can, he goes with me 80 percent of the time.
[6:47] He's a big 70-pound husky. um so he drives with me anywhere if i have that opportunity to get to that destination and i don't care if it's in chicago new york miami uh even this summer when we go shoot this movie uh he will be going with me and we'll drive cross country to la uh specifically and the 20 of the time he's unable to go with me if i had to get on a plane i'll fly my nephew from chicago to watch him to house it to watch him so we just got back in town him and i and we're i'm back home and this is here home in atlanta um so that's where i'm at today wow okay there you go and you mentioned you just kind of lightly dropped that you're going to be working on a movie like can you is that yeah Yeah, no, I can. I can share it. I have was given the opportunity, I was approached to have my life story, be featured, be a feature film. So it's a major multi-million dollar movie project.
[8:00] We will be shooting sometime this summer. I'm an advisor on set. I'm not a part of the movie, being in the movie, but it's a feature film with a full cast, film crew, and all of that. I'm really excited about that project. And it's focusing on the incarceration component, with flashbacks that led up to me being incarcerated, including the transformation of who I end up becoming today, which is who you all know as an advocate for human and animal rights, as a former vegan athlete, and as a social entrepreneur trying to make plant-based eating accessible and more importantly, affordable. Yeah. So I'm very fortunate and very excited to bring this movie to you all. We'll be a part of the team that's bringing this movie to you all in the next year or two. Wow. Do you know what the name of the movie is going to be? Of course. I can't give away too many details yet. But yeah, we have a name that's already fixated with it that's associated with the project. But we also have a name that we're going to more than likely just stick with that name, which is pretty cool.
[9:21] But, yeah, I can't give away too many details about it. But, yeah, it's a movie based on my life story. And do you know who plays Dom? So we're actually actively right now going through that casting process. And I don't know if you know anything about movies or movie making. This is the first for me. So I learned a lot already for the project. But we are going right now through the casting process. And again, I can't give away too many details, but I'm excited to see, especially the specific supporting roles that will be put in place.
Transitioning to Plant-Based Living
[10:02] But we do have some good ideas. Yeah. Great i mean and listen and i don't want to talk too much about the this this film, i'm so free i'm okay with it yeah yeah but i'm just curious so like and we're gonna get into this incredible book that that you just wrote called eat what elephants eat here it is with of course you on the back wearing wearing your digs yeah but but i would imagine it sounds like this movie project was brought to you before you had the book who who who had the insight to go you know let's make a movie about dom yeah so the movie you're right usually what happens when a.
[10:50] Then studio heads may take notice, like, oh, my God, this is an amazing book. And my book, as you probably already got a chance to read through a little bit, it's a hybrid. It's not just any cookbook with these amazing whole plant-based recipes, but it also gives you my why and my background and my origin story in the beginning. So it's an autobiography that comes together with a cookbook and then you have equal elefancy, the book.
[11:15] And so with respect to the process on how this movie opportunity came into my ecosystem, I have been courted over the years to be a part of a lot of different projects from documentaries that's vegan related to non-vegan related, including some of the bigger projects, some of the original. Let's just call it original producers and money guys that felt like, well, why weren't you a part of this project? Or why wasn't you on this documentary? And I explained why, you know, conflicts of interest or conflicts of timing and more. But some of the same producers behind a lot of incredible projects and documentaries that have been produced approached me about doing this movie project. And they had a chance to also, they already knew my story and they felt like my story needs to be published and produced. So they also had an opportunity to get an advance copy, a script of the book proposal that was originally put together, which was.
[12:33] The way my book proposal was written, it was like reading a movie. And you get a part of that and eat what elephants eat. But as you know yourself, the proposal is a whole different writing and narrative. And that writing is basically a very detailed forensics of who I am from my inside and outside. My entire DNA is on display for everyone to judge from publishers and more. And they had an opportunity to read this. And the same reason why we had all big four publishers interested, you know, in producing this book is the same reason why they was interested in producing the movie because that story or my story moved them in a way that they want, the team wanted to produce the movie to show the world that never judge a book by its cover. You can have a second chance in life and do great. And you can go on to be a good human being with ethics and morals, um, that, you know, uh, centered around the do no harm approach. What really called them as my mantra, if it requires harm to know that it won't have anything to do with it. And, and they approached me for it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[13:58] So, so wonderful. So beautiful. And so I think well-deserving.
Nine Steps to a New Mindset
[14:05] So yay. Yay. So this is what I'd love to do, Dom, is in this book, Eat What Elephants Eat, you have nine steps to the Eat What Elephants Eat mindset. And so what I'd love to do is I think this would serve as a nice framework for us to talk about your story and then how people can apply it to themselves. So let's start with number one, which is...
[14:36] You say, accept your past. And so I'd love for you, let's talk about that past. And you say you grew up in the West side of not Chicago, but Chiroi, right? Oh, Chirac. Yeah. We call it Chirac. Sorry.
[14:52] That's okay. No, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So Chirac is a, like Chi-Town is an acronym of Chicago specifically, which is the city I grew up on. I grew up on the West side and my past includes growing up in a very poor and violent neighborhood or experiencing some of these experiences that has shaped me into who I end up becoming short-term and who I also end up becoming long-term with respect to my personal evolution. And to be completely vulnerable with that and to recognize that that's something that we and I I wanted the reader to see if I can be vulnerable and honest and identify my why and my past. So can you, the reader, and to really dig deep to find out your reasoning why. And because if you know your why, you could be successful and be sustainable in choosing this compassionate lifestyle specifically. So I think that's important for people to do a little deep diving with respect to that. Yeah. Yeah. and just so people get a little bit more color around your past um.
[16:22] I, you know, to me, uh, it's just tragic and I don't know if this is still going on. It's just the way things are, but how, what you witnessed as far as almost all the men in your life, basically either being murdered or going to prison, uh, because they were part of the, um, what was the name of the gang? The vice Lords, vice Lords. Yeah. The vice lords. And I think you were, I think that you were kind of not wanting to go that path, but you just saw the money and the power and it was just, you couldn't, you couldn't stay away from it. It wasn't really not wanting to, it was just like, there's a fork in the road and, you know, you have a choice to go left, which is job, school, football in the morning. You had this choice, like, okay.
[17:18] Hustle, get some money to help family, help yourself, help your community. And you're good at both. And I kind of went forward, like, you know, with the ideal in mind that this is only temporary. I never had it in my mind I was going to be doing this forever, you know. Sure, the attraction of what comes along with being a person of influence in the streets, and being good at it too, like any other young man that comes from, a marginalized community in that timeline. You got to think we're talking late 80s, early 90s.
[17:59] The impressionable impressions of a guy like myself is seeing, you know, where you have these opportunities to make an abundance of money really quick, really fast, where you can also do more for yourself and your family and your community. Because there's only so much going left is going to do, you know, and especially when you are brought up in that environment, and that's all you know, or that's all you're seeing, these role models, not just the men and male role models, but I've seen even women in my family doing some hustling and doing that, you kind of become immune to it, and you feel like this is a way of life, and it's okay, but in hindsight, no, it wasn't okay, you know, but I learned from that. So I decided to go straight. So while I was trying to hustle and do what I needed to do, while also playing football in high school, and then eventually going on, my injury stopped me from going to play football in college, but I still went to college for architecture and design. And that's around the time I decided to leave this along and retired at the dope gang and to continue to do full-time school while also working in an entry-level position in healthcare.
[19:22] And then that lifestyle from my past finally caught up with me to do basically what some people would view as one last score, a childhood friend of mine asked me to do this deal. And it just so happened ultimately the deal was a bad deal where I was being set up by the feds. Yeah, so it was basically a sting operation. What was interesting to me is that, If you rewind maybe a couple of months or a year, I don't know the timeline exactly, you were kind of making this delivery.
[20:00] And I guess the cocaine that was in the car wasn't the grade or the level that it should have been unbeknownst to you. And so you basically had to talk your way out of what you talked about. A dangerous situation. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Very dangerous situation. i remember that like it was yesterday yeah yeah yeah and and it sounds like that was at that point you were like okay i am like i'm done and then to your point that one last as you refer to it in the book you had that one last pothole that basically bit you pretty hard where it was a sting operation and you got it was basically dom versus the united states right yeah and i tell people all the time. It's truly one of the most scariest pieces of paper that anyone can see. It's not you versus your county. It's not you versus your city. It's not you even versus your state. It's you versus your government, your country, the people of the United States of America versus you, which tells you and anyone that's haven't had this experience dealing with their government.
[21:18] That's basically saying the government has enough evidence on you, the federal government where you were indicted by a grand jury and you are, um they're gonna their conviction rate is like 87 percent um you you're gonna have some consequences one way of the other um and that's one of the most scariest feelings I have ever experienced in my life uh when I seen that piece of paper and it doesn't get any worse than that for sure a lot of it's very stressful um and and and and then when they put you in these certain conditions including me ended up being in the hole is very inhumane and some of the things i have seen and experienced while i was in there yeah well we'll we'll talk about that, in a sec i'd love to talk about it a little more detail but sure um so i'm just going to kind of go back so to your nine steps to you know eat what elephants
Learning from Mistakes
[22:21] eat the mindset so number one is basically accept your past. Number two, we're kind of talking about it, which is learn from your mistakes. And, uh, and maybe, you know, how, how long do you think it, it took you before you were like, you were able to learn from your, some of your so-called mistakes. Instantly.
[22:45] Yeah. When I tell you, um, uh, it took that just that one piece of paper, um, and a couple of days in MCC Chicago, and that's when I had never before. That's, it's funny. I'm not religious, I'm spiritual, but I do believe in God. I do believe in a higher energy and a higher calling. That brought me the closest I have been to God.
[23:14] And more, and I didn't need to experience years behind bars to realize, I don't need to be placed in this scenario ever again. I would never cut corners ever again. I would never do something to break the law ever again. It was one of the most uncomfortable feelings I have ever experienced. And it made me, this is what made me get on my knees and prayed in my cell for forgiveness and to get through this, this challenge that I was facing and going forward. So honestly, if I'm being real with you, it didn't take long at all. It was very pretty much instantly. I knew this is somewhere I did not want to be and did not want to spend much time being in. But I did have to go do some calendars.
[24:10] But every day, almost every day, I would pray to get home sooner than later through a technicality, through a pill, through a pardon or whatever. I wanted to get home. I felt like I didn't need to sit in time out that long to realize like, this is just not the life of me. Well, and you mentioned how for the first time in your life, the black lawyer that you had kind of, you know, looked at you and talked to you in a, in a certain way that you weren't used to. And I think he basically said, help me if I'm right here, but you know, Hey, uh, you can either do three years and right. I think just by pleading guilty, or if you don't and you try and fight it, what was it? 30 potential for 15 or 30 years, something. Yeah. So he, he had a heart to heart with me. He didn't know what they was going to give me, but he knew I was going to do time. The option was either you take full responsibility and, And we do what's called a blind plea. And hopefully the judge has mercy to give the most minimum sentence available based on sentencing guidelines as a first time nonviolence offender. Right. So I had that going for me. Never been in trouble with the law before.
[25:36] Or we go to trial for entrapment because it was an entrapment case. There was pressure. I wasn't looking for trouble. I wasn't like, yo, I want to make this deal happen. Like they kept pursuing me for months to make this deal happen, even though I had hesitation.
[25:54] And if we would have went to trial and we would have lost the way the U.S. Government views it, bipartisan, no matter if the AG is Democrat or Republican, they don't care. They view you as wasting taxpayers' dollars when you could have just admitted to guilt and took full responsibility and served time or whatever the scenario might have ended up being. And I would have got a minimum of 10 years for sure if I would have took them to trial because they viewed you as wasting taxpayers' money when you know you are guilty for something or guilty for that. Those charges they was bringing up. Yeah. So what were you sentenced with? How much time? Yeah. So they basically gave me a 10 year sentence, which was basically five years of hard time and five years of house arrest. And I end up doing some years, about two to three years on hard. And then I got the two years off from that, from what we call the RDAP, the drug program and for good behavior and more wishes. I was eligible for up to 36 months off my sentence because of.
[27:18] Mm hmm. My my my background in terms of being a nonviolent offender, first time offender and basically not causing trouble in my during my duration of my time. And then I came home where I had a mandate of five years, a house arrest where my requirement was to get housing, find housing, get a job. And I was able to do both after serving about six months and halfway out. So I was basically homeless for six months, you know, until I was able to come home. I mean, I was able to get a get a apartment and get a job, which is my health care job that excelled. And then being a role model citizen, I had curfew. I was only able to leave my home from 6 a.m. And I had to be back by 7 p.m. That was my curfew. I was only allowed to be out from away from my home within the vicinity radius, like a 30 mile radius of Chicago to just go to work, basically. And but I had to be home by 7 p.m.
[28:27] Every day. And they would call me up to five times throughout the night from 7 p.m. to 6 a.m. Randomly where my vocal cords would have to match. First thing, you need a landline. You cannot have a cell phone or a wireless cordless phone. It needs to be a landline. And they would call me from a random number. I wasn't allowed to have a caller ID. And keep in mind, this is mid to late 2000s. And so the landline, they will repeat, there was a computer repeating sentences or words that I need to say back into my vocal cords, which they recorded at the probation office had to match with those words. And if it didn't, I had one more attempt for it to match. Because their goal is to make sure I didn't leave my home or not doing any illegal activity outside of the curfew hours. And if I didn't match, then marshals would kick down that door and ship me back to prison. So it was very high tech. It was not a monitor embrace. They didn't believe in that for my case or for me, they needed my vocal cords, just like they needed my DNA. My DNA is on file. I was not allowed to leave unless I was to give up my DNA.
[29:54] Wow. That's intense. It's really something. It was an experience for sure. Yeah. All right. So you're you you get to prison and within the first week,
Recognizing Possibility
[30:08] I think, you know, to your number three of your nine steps, you recognized. I mean, maybe it was just a matter of praying, but you recognize possibility over limitations when you were when you were basically praying. And it came to you, right? Yeah. Yeah. The light bulb moment you're talking about. Yeah. Yeah. Trying to find my why or, or understand, okay, what is the consequences? Like I get it for every action. There is a consequence, but I had a moment of epitome and that light bulb moment when I was praying to get answers and everything pointed to that childhood memory when me and my mother when I was eight years old, this messaging came in clear through me because I have always been a finicky eater. I have always been very disgusted by chicken wings or pork chops, anything associated or attached to the anatomy of a bone. I would just look at it. I was one of those kids ahead of my time, just had a look at that, the way the food was structured to know it came from something that was slaughtered.
[31:20] And I looked at my mom in that moment and then told her that I didn't want to have anything to do with those chicken wings because I was already a finicky eater and more. And I would always pick around the cartilage. To me, digging in those wings felt like digging in my own forearms where you're going through the little veins, you see the little blue veins of the chicken wing and you just, and I would like pull just a little bit at the flesh and just eat that versus.
[31:46] Typically when people eat chicken wings, they're like, clean bone and all. That was not my style. I just hated it. In that moment, me and my mom had a conflict and I told her I didn't want these chicken wings because they felt like little bitty arms and it's not like she can rush to Google to be like, what do I feed this guy? But she, after processing it and gave it some thought, she realized that, yeah, he's, viewing this piece of meat as a dead piece of flesh and she ended up going to the local grocery store to buy me fish sticks. So I end up eating a lot of fish sticks and, chicken nuggets, as long as they didn't have any bone attached to it. But that moment in that memory and that messaging was very clear in that moment of prayer in my prison cell, where, if you're an eight-year-old Dominic or an 80-year-old Dominic, if karma or the universe shows you something, it's truly important for you to see through it, to really go all the way through it to see what is this messaging about? And I, in that moment, was onto something, but I chose to continue to go on my life to eat meat, of course, in a very aesthetic way, the way food engineers are very creative at doing to mask what it actually is.
[33:10] And I felt like the universe, based on the messaging I received from my prayer, was removing me from society to really evolve and become who I became today, which is my mantra I created in that moment. I did a hard spiritual reset that if it requires harm, deny or no, I don't want to have anything to do with it. And it was in that moment of prayer, that light bulb went off where I denounced eating meat and made a deal with the universe or God that I would never eat meat again. And I never looked back. And that was about 24 years ago. Yeah. Yeah.
[33:46] And you the amazing thing is, too, is it so you decided to do this in prison just after being there a week or two. And and now you're basically trading your meat for other inmates, vegetables, right? Absolutely. I would trade my meat protein for my cellmates for their carbs. So I ate a lot of simple and complex carbs and they thought I was crazy and a weirdo for that. But they was happy to make that deal with me because they got more meat protein. They thought they was getting a better deal out of it. When in hindsight, I was getting a better deal because I went on to become very strong, very powerful. One of the strongest guys in the prison system because we would have what's called liftoffs. And in a population of over a thousand inmates, I was always in the top 10, benching heavy, over 400 pounds, 405, squatting over 500, deadlifting 500 like it's nothing. And gosh, God's dead love can pull 315 to 405, but me, It was just like clockwork, you know, nothing.
[35:03] That's super impressive. Did you get any of the guys or gals go, I want to eat what he's eating? Well, it wasn't a co-ed prison.
[35:17] It was only one gender. But, yeah, no, they didn't. You know, it's funny. I think you get more men and women in today's society that, especially now, I feel like there's a lot of trolls online and a lot of more people that speak very, very recklessly and ignorant to something that they don't know or fear, but speak more down on people that eat plant-based food. Because back in those days, and it could have been the fact that I'm in the feds. I'm not in the state. State is a different type of criminal. Federal, you're in there with kingpins to guys that do white collar crimes and more, just more of a mature criminal, more of a high level criminal.
[36:03] They didn't give a S about what I ate. I mean, they thought it was weird and it was crazy, but they wasn't thinking I'm less than them at all. So, no, they didn't really take to that. Like, I need to eat what he eats. They're just like no that's cool you know he can he can do that yeah yeah well and it must have it must have did it surprise you at all that you were you know eating basically just vegetables, rice bread whatever and even though you lost weight like i think you came in at 250 you got down to 190 yeah you were just crushing it in the weight room, Yeah. Again, we didn't have the incredible books like Elephants Eat or the documentaries out there to show the data and the science or the organizations like PLANTSTRONG and More to really help guide people through this amazing lifestyle that we all are part of. I have no idea what was going to happen to my body because I did it for ethical reasons. And but my God, me doing it, I my body was became his own experiment in itself. I didn't know if I was going to wither away either. Like, you know, that's the concept where you're like, oh, you're going to eat vegan. You're going to wither away. Hell, I not that I thought I was going to wither away, but I didn't care because I didn't want to harm and eat animals anymore.
[37:28] Then if I wither away, I wither away. And it became the opposite. I was over 250 pounds and that inflammation started receding and I started losing weight. I became what genetically I was engineered with respect to natural selection supposed to look like, you know, without the fat, without the inflammation. Now, still strong and more, but the counter production of lifting weights while also eating plant based. It was a beautiful mix that just produced a really incredible body of work and that can look heavy and can basically walk that walk, not just talk that talk. I want to read. This is an excerpt from from your book. And it's basically you talk about your transformation within the first couple of days. So people often ask me what those days of transitioning from a diet of meat and terrible fats to plants felt like. And I tell them, honestly.
[38:29] It was the closest thing that I have ever felt to feeling like I was a real-life superhero with a cape, superpowers, and incredible strength. I lifted weights two to three times a day to stay occupied, but also to burn off a surge of newfound energy. I became one of the strongest men among more than 1,000 inmates in my prison compound. Yeah, that's something else right there. It's true, too. I mean, I really did in that moment. And I wish I could get it back. You know, I had never been a human that had it or a human that felt like, oh, I wish I could experience this again, experience that again.
[39:08] But that's probably one of the very few things that if I can experience what I experienced in that moment when I stopped eating me, if I can sell that and put it in a bottle and tell people, this is how you're going to feel when you go vegan. I promise you, you're going to feel not weak. You're going to feel strong, beautiful from head to toe, inside and out, spiritually, your aura, everything, so much clarity. You're just going to feel like you're invisible in a good way. And I felt like a superhero. It's just one of the most, I swear, one of the most beautiful feelings I have ever experienced, for sure. Well, and I think specifically for you, you know, with your story and who you were as a kid, I almost feel like everything kind of came into alignment in a really beautiful way for you in that moment in time in the prison. And it was like this.
[40:08] It's kind of like, yeah. So you also talk about, you know, I love the way you talk about spirituality in the book. I love the way you, you know, the way you...
[40:20] With so much vulnerability and honesty, talk about your journey. But you also talk about animal-based foods versus plant-based foods. And you refer to it in a way that I've never heard before. You refer to the animal-based foods as dead energy and the plant-based foods as live energy, which, man, I love it. Can you speak a little bit more to that? Yeah, there's science to prove that. Where are you talking about dead or empty enzymes or non-energetic calories to when you're eating live enzymes and nutrients and more from leafy greens and plants in itself? Like Kendrick Lamar's song is, they're not like us. Yeah, that plant protein is different than meat protein. You don't have the itis. You don't have the inflammation. Your recovery is amazing. You're able to digest more calories and take in clean protein, especially when you're removing the middleman, which is animals. You're going directly to the source. You're superseding and going directly to the source of all essential protein, which is plant protein. Why wouldn't you want to remove that middleman? And so that's something people will learn in that part of that book, without a doubt. Yeah.
[41:44] Another thing that I want to talk about because, You, you, you spell it out very, very well in the book. And it's something that I think is so blatant. And that is you say that black America is, is sicker than most. And maybe it's, and I'm just wondering if you want to, you know. Yeah, it's true.
Health Disparities in Communities
[42:08] Because what I love, Dom, is that, you know, the way you're representing, the way you're setting an example, not only for all people, but specifically for the black community is, is powerful and it's needed. And yeah, yeah. A lot of black Americans are still in very poor communities or was deemed as marginalized communities. Depends on what part of the political party you sit on these days, because now we're in a very scary time where history is being rewrote and definitions are being redefined, which is sad. But, you know, let's call it what it is. But, yeah, a lot of black Americans and brown Americans, black and brown vulnerable communities are at different disadvantages from historic practices from predatorial to racists, including redlining and more where they have to play catch up and or allowing these inhibitors. And entities come into these communities from liquor stores to fast food shacks and big brands and big boxes that are just doing nothing but promoting and only producing fried carcinogens and more.
[43:29] So these are unhealthy things that a lot of kids and young adults and even other adults are conditioned to think that this is okay. And this is the way of what we eat and more. And that's not true, especially when you're dealing in more dead zones where, there aren't near grocery stores or farmer markets, uh, uh, where they have access to, uh, more healthy food options in itself. Uh, and we talk a lot about that in the book specifically. So it's very real. It really is. Yeah.
Why Elephants?
[44:09] Tell me, why the elephant? Of all the animals, why the elephant that you named this book and your whole brand after? Yeah, yeah, Eat What Elephants Eat. And as the book says, vegan recipes for a strong body and gentle spirit.
[44:34] You know, animals historically, if you go do a deep dive, have... Have been fixated as a form of – it's very symbolic to humans of what they like to identify with. You know, you look at all the NFL teams and basketball teams, Chicago Bears, Dallas – you have rare commodities entities like Dallas Cowboys. But most sports teams from collegiate high school all the way up to pros and elite associate themselves with some form of a mascot. And most men and women, when they tap into that masculine energy, usually aspire to be in that form of that animal that has been able to be respected as most of the time as apex predators. You see big cats and bears. It's usually a carnivore animal associated with these teams or the human person that wants to be competitive. And elephants are some of the most gentle, some of the smartest. They are, by definition and biology-wise, the largest, strongest vegans, technically. They eat nothing but plants. They don't eat other animals.
[45:59] Really the biggest, strongest giants of all the animal kingdom when it comes to mammals specifically. And that reminds me a lot of what our community is about, very gentle community, very compassionate community, and a community full of strong men and women that.
[46:21] Um, do a do no harm approach, but are not afraid to also, um, step up and defend the most vulnerable and put their tucks down and defend the weak. Um, and to me, it just made all the sense of the world, especially when I was speaking at it, when it comes to speaking engagement, that this ideal about elephants came into my mind when I was tapped to go speak at NYU. Uh, cause we all sometimes use visual aids. Humans are visual aid creatures.
[46:51] And one of the best ways to help a lot of these men and women, specifically young men, identify with masculinity is to show them the power and the iconic view of an elephant. Just to let you know, you, the reader, you, the visual student that's in the
The Importance of Family
[47:09] audience, that elephants are plant-based, not lions. And I never looked back and that was years and years ago so yeah it's something special about the elephant not to mention it's in my dna uh being a nigerian and congo descent is one of my bloodlines and that's where they're the most protected in those national parks in africa the african desert elephant is the most powerful plant-eating animal alive i want to read another excerpt this is from page 43 and you're talking about kind of my way of the you say but as i matured and followed my do no harm path my new definition of strength became a non-gendered one love that based on passion empathy and vulnerability my vision of strength is inspired by two sources my mother's kindness integrity ability to overcome challenges and her willingness to communicate and from the strength of our world's largest herbivore and my ancestral guide, the mighty African elephant.
[48:19] Your book is dedicated to, Two, you know, the three most important sources of energy and inspiration in your life, your mother, Maria, your fur daughter, Socha, is that how you pronounce it? Socha. Socha, sorry. Socha. And my first son, Rock. I love you all to the moon and back.
[48:40] Can you talk about those three sources of inspiration? Yeah, my mother, the most beautiful, gentle human I have ever had the honor of meeting. And I'm not just saying that to be biased, but she would give her last to a stranger on the street. She was the nurse that after seeing this witness of this gunfire, when I seen my first murder at the age of five, pulled over in the car to make sure we was OK and got out that car to check on a little girl that just got. Hit by that driver in that moment of that quick scenario, because that's who she is. And I wanted to make sure that little girl was okay after she got hit by the hit and run scenario. And you read about that in the book. But she's the most beautiful, beautiful human being.
[49:34] That's the most selfless person that I have ever met to this day.
[49:40] Secondly, Soka came into my life. She means so much to me. She transitioned a few years ago. She left me a rock behind. But Soka was the first animal to come into my life. After I came home from prison with this militant mindset and had a very, very fragile and closed heart that I didn't even my mother didn't think I was able to love again. I haven't cracked a smile in years. And when she was introduced to me, my mom brought her back from St. Thomas Island. That's why she's named Soka. She's a she's an island dog from St. Thomas. And their national dance is called the Soka. And my mom named her Soka. And again, you can read about her full story in the book. But when she was introduced in my life, gave me those big, beautiful brown Pixlr eyes, my smile returned. And my mother never thought she'd see it again. And Soka just basically taught me how to love again, without a doubt. And Rock, he's my Husky, my dude, my son, my everything. He comes from a troubled background, and I was able to adopt him when he was one.
[51:08] And again, you can read about his story as well. But he was able to get me out of that funk when his sister transitioned. But he keeps me on my toes. He keeps me young. He keeps me sharp. He reminds me a lot of when I was a young man growing up, just misunderstood and to have that guidance. And that's what I'm here for, too. Guide him. So we're a good match, me and him. I love him to death. I think I may have just heard him drinking water from a bowl. You did. Yeah, yeah.
The Kitchen as a Sanctuary
[51:42] Way to be back. Get yourself some hydration there.
Exploring Delicious Recipes
[51:50] So let's talk. I want to start talking about some of the incredible recipes that you have in this book, because I think what do you have? 80? Yeah. Yeah. But 80 recipes. Have you always loved like being a cook and being a chef? Or is this something that you found after prison?
[52:09] Yeah, I've been cooking since I was a little boy because my mom was a nurse and she worked as a pediatric nurse in the daytime and a lot of nights during the week. She would work as a nurse in a nursing home for the graveyard shift so she can make ends meet because she had to feed three miles, me and my two older sisters. And she was the only source of income that we had growing up in our apartment. And so I had to fend for myself. Growing up with two teenage sisters, one that was already on her way out the door.
[52:40] Yolanda did look out for me as much as she can. But Tanya, you know, she was not making me meals when I wanted to. So I had to fend for myself. So, yeah, I kind of picked up things I learned from my mom and as well as my siblings and more. But to me, cooking is like painting. I have been really good as a natural artist. But same thing with cooking. To me, it's just it's poetry. It's it's something I love doing. And I think I have the palate for it, you know, where I know what matches with what types of spices and more. So, yeah. Yeah. Before I dive into some of the recipes, because I've marked about 10 of them that I want to walk through with you. Sure. Is your mother still alive, Maria? Yes. Yeah, she's still alive. Is she still in Chicago? No, she's in Atlanta. She's about an hour away from me, but she is moving back to Chicago this year to be closer to her grandchildren. Got it. And I mean, your mom and your sisters must be so proud of the kind of the life that you've carved out for yourself.
[53:48] I think they are. I think they are. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're a tough crowd for sure. That's one benefit of being a man. Black or white doesn't matter. If you are a male that was brought up around strong women, no nonsense, independent women, it definitely produces a great human being and a different type of male with a different type of perspective. So, yeah, that's an advantage I have over other men. I had a chance to be brought up by strong, strong women.
[54:23] I mean, come on. I mean, I'm sure you've sent them copies of your book, right? Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes. My, yes, yes, absolutely. Yeah. So, yeah, my mom, very proud moment to have an altar in the family. And my sisters are proud of me, without a doubt. So are my nieces and nephews, without a doubt. But but even more importantly, to get people in my life, I don't talk to that that much or those that I haven't spoken to in years. My old boss calling me up and I do owe her a phone call because she was one of the people that gave me a second chance when I came home to get a job, despite my background now as a felon. So that's special to me to see because I mentioned her in the book, my old boss, Kim, and she's so proud of me. She's so proud of me. Yeah what became yeah what do you so your your mom and your sisters and maybe some of your other people you grew up with do they have they embraced your veganism uh or have yeah yeah yeah they've been inspired yeah they eat plant-based they're not completely vegan but they they eat a lot of plant-based foods or plant-based recipes because of me from my mother down to my nieces and nephews yeah without a doubt yeah they have been inspired to eat better because of me I love it so let's let's dive into some recipes all right let's do it okay so.
[55:51] I got to tell you, the photography in this book is incredible. And that's thanks to Caitlin Bensell, right? Yeah, Caitlin is incredible. Her team was incredible. In fact, the same chef that created the recipes for photographing for Snoop Doll's cookbook was the same honor. She made my recipes and made them look good. So, yes.
[56:20] Well so you know you have a whole section on dressings but here's here i just i saw this chickpea caesar dressing and i was like oh god you gotta try it you gotta try it yeah it's so good it's so good it's one of the one thing about the book you have options to make uh what i call completely whole plant-based recipes that are completely oil-free like you I do eat, I know you eat completely oil free at times I eat primarily oil free but you have the option of doing oil free recipes or whole plant based recipes or if you're crowded for time you have opportunity to do shortcuts too we have the recipes are different, engineered and wrote for different levels of eaters and picky eaters and cooks from the five minute kitchen shelf to the 50 minute kitchen shelf. So that's one thing about the recipes. They are all very manageable. That's good. So they're customizable like that. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. They are. Yeah. So this, this photo, I was just start starstruck by the.
[57:33] The brilliance and the color of these waffles. I don't know which recipe it is, but the beet waffles. Yes. Yes. The beet waffles. I came up with that recipe probably about five to six years ago. I was in the kitchen. Yeah. Story. Um, actually longer than that, I believe. Um, I think I was in my Ironman days when I was doing triathlons in New York. Um, but I remember being in the kitchen, being creative and wanting, that's when I did a lot of mixing with beets and watermelon as a pre-workout drink versus taking some supplement powdered to get down before a long century bike ride on a Saturday morning. But there's so much you can do with beets and it's such an underrated vegetable.
[58:25] I looked at those. I remember just like, I don't want just some basic flour type of waffles or pancakes.
[58:32] I want it to be already naturally sweet without adding some type of sugar or sweetener to the powder itself. Sure, you can depend more on maple syrup, but as you know, some people are heavy with the maple syrup. And I just want it to be naturally sweet. And that's when I added beats too, because that's when I was in my beat phase of having beats in a lot of different.
[58:53] Different uh recipes and yeah just creatively thought of it it was spontaneous yeah well and i love it because i've never seen red waffles like that before especially tell me this how how forward tasting are the beets in those waffles can you so good you can eat it without you can drink it you can eat them you can eat the waffles and you can also do a duration of pancakes the same way without maple syrup add you some fruit they're both sweet enough yeah and they're all free too yeah love that here you know just i just want to show people this is just a photo of you that's in the book right uh so you uh you like that hat huh yeah yeah that was something that um we spent the day going they follow me to the farmer's market uh because i try to go to the farmer's market as much as possible to support local vendors but it was really sunny that day and very bright and so yeah just throwing a hat uh it's a casual saturday and they wanted to keep it in the fall yeah i have photos we took without the hat it's like no we like the hat so on page 160 you have good morning sweet potato and i've never again.
[1:00:05] Your creativity astounds me i've never ever seen sweet potatoes that look like dessert but look at this like you've got a banana variety you've got a berries i mean you go to town yeah there's so many ways to you variations of potatoes there's over 10 different types of potatoes to make in 100 different different ways and honestly rep this is just one of many ways you can make a very good sweet potato to satisfy that palate of yours yes it's one of my favorites do you um do you have a a favorite potato that you like working with?
[1:00:44] Yeah, the Japanese potato. It's a hybrid. It's a mix of the traditional Idaho potato and a traditional sweet or purple potato. But you get, if anyone ever had a Japanese potato, you get this mix of sweet and savory in one bite. It's my favorite potato. I love it. So good. Yeah, solid. I'm just going to show people two back-to-back kind of soups. This is a watermelon gazpacho. Look at that. And then followed on the next page, you have this spinach and broccoli Ironman soup. Yeah, that's named after being an Ironman triathlete myself and doing triathlons. But it's such a beautiful recipe that you can create in cold months like now. Today, we woke up to like 30 degrees unseasonally cold here in Atlanta. But as you know, the whole nation is blanketed with cold weather these days. So it's a really good soup to warm your heart and your soul full of nutrients.
[1:01:53] You, like me, are a huge fan of bowls, bowl building. Yes, sir. I think, yeah. And so you have a whole section. Here's, this is your EWE bowl. We call it EWE. Yeah, that's our acronym. That's short for eat what elephants eat. So that's the OG bowl. The first of many bowls, but that's mixed. That's on top of a bed of leafy greens, iron kale, sauteed chickpeas, Japanese potato, or you can use sweet potatoes, avocados, hemp seeds, pistachios, tomatoes. So good. You've got all kinds of wonderful bowls in this, in this section. A lot of good bowls. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[1:02:42] I love doing collard green wraps and these, you call them egg salad collard wraps. And I mean, look at that. You're putting that filling in there with all kinds of great stuff. And that's a firm tofu mixed in with the cashew mayo. Again, these could be made for those that's listening. These could be made all free. Very healthy, very healthy substitute. for the traditional alternative of an egg solid that's full of mayo and sugar. So you don't want that. Right. I don't know if I've ever seen a sandwich that looks this large, but I would like to try and tackle it. This is mega. Yeah. Because, you know, growing up in the Midwest, I grew up around a lot of sandwiches, including burgers and hoagies and BLTs. And this is my version of a big, nice BLT. that's plant-based and healthy for the soul and body.
[1:03:47] And I just got to show people another. This is your beet burger. Yeah, my beet burger is one of my favorites.
[1:03:55] Again, I'm doing my timeline of beets, and I was inspired to come up with this beet recipe where the burger patty in itself is sweet and savory, and you don't have to rely on condiments for a nice tasting bite. Mm-hmm well and to your point you went through your your beat period there when what you were doing your ironman triathlons and a lot of your training but as you said i mean there is so much science to support that beets are really kind of a um a performing enhancing food because of the nitrates that turn into nitrites and dilate our vessels and and all that um you give a i love the way, you know, you kind of give a lot, a nod to your roots. Um, and here, for example, is your, this is a soul bowl. Yeah. Yeah. The soul bowl is another one of my favorites. Uh, and we talk about that as far as the history of soul food associated with, uh, the black community dating back to slavery on how it was given scraps, but soul food or what we know some people eat today, it's very unhealthy and it's nothing to really highlight as it has been. But we, a lot of Black beings, including myself, are trying to redefine and show people that soul food could be healthy and not be an unhealthy product of slavery in itself. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
[1:05:25] Do you know, do you know, I think his name, you know, Terry Bryant at all? I don't know Terry. I heard of Terry though. I don't know him at all. Yeah. Cause I know he does all kinds of vegan soul cooking. That's kind of his, you know, his niche. So to speak. All right. Your, your auntie Valeri would make some stuffed peppers. Valeri. Yes. My auntie Valeri. Yeah. And, but these, these are the healthy version.
[1:05:52] Yes. Yeah. My aunt Valerie used to do these stuffed peppers. And so one thing you're going to love about the book, most of these recipes have been veganized based off of some nostalgic recipes I grew up liking to different family members. And I give a little blur before each recipe take you down memory lane about that recipe. So it's like storytelling. It is a really great storyteller no it is and i think it's so important that each recipe have a story right that kind of has a little history and you do a beautiful job with that you you also have a little little dessert section for us with a sweet tooth yeah which i do and as as all the PLANTSTRONG listeners know i am a i'm a sucker for a really good chocolate dessert and these brownies i mean help me jiffy yeah that's the jiffy brownie that was so the jiffy brownie is one of the first.
[1:06:56] Foods i grew up as a kid my first recipe that i ever made growing up i was like eight years old when i was cooking in the kitchen i saw so the listener know i started off baking not cooking, because I had a sweet tooth and Jiffy used to produce these brownies similar to the Jiffy cornbread that was so good to me. And so I just basically re-engineered it in a plant-based healthier version called a Jiffy brownie. Yeah. Yeah.
[1:07:26] You know, one of my favorite things, but I don't have it very often, is a cobbler, a really good cobbler. And you have this peach cobbler that I just want to dive into. And the way that you've put it together is so wild, the way it looks like droplets of the, I guess, what did you call that? The crust that are on top of the free stone. Yeah. Yeah. So that cobbler is mimicked off of my grandmother, Sophie's peach cobbler famous recipe. And I noticed after the book was published that they probably by accident left her name off of that. But it should have said Sophie's peach cobbler. Right. But she made a really great peach cobbler and that's mimicked off of that.
[1:08:16] Um so the the whole introduction to this book you say this kitchen is for dancing and for anybody that follows you dom on instagram knows that you can you can dance dance it up in the kitchen and i love that uh and i just want to read this and then have you make some remarks on you know how your kitchen is such a sanctuary for you these days but you say this kitchen is for dancing it's a reminder that here in my kitchen where i cook eat and share delicious vegan food i am engaged in the most upbeat dance of all the one called life that's awesome, Yeah, I used to dance with Soka a lot in my kitchen.
[1:09:06] And she will get excited when I would dance and do the recipes for her and I. And I have the sign right here. In fact, there's the sign. This kitchen is for dancing that I used often as a former inspiration because I make some of my best recipes. I'm always singing and dancing in the kitchen. And to me, the kitchen in itself is one of the most intimate parts of a home where you can find inspiration. You can have some heart to hearts with other family members and basically what kind of defines your foundation going forward. And we talk about that in details in the book. So that's very special to me, that memory, especially the memories I had growing up to my last memories with Soka and currently Rock. He's a great, great dance partner in the kitchen. So is there any particular music right now that you like to put on when you when you dance in the kitchen? I love them all. I mean, I might be in a mood for some Al Green down to some mood for some soulful house music. Down to some trance music like Rufus De La Soul, down to some Kings of Leon, alternative rock and more. So I love it all.
[1:10:25] Music is such a beautiful, beautiful work of art. And I think everyone could find inspiration in some type of music. Yeah. What's the best way for people to get a hold of your book, Eat What Elephants Eat? Book, the book itself, you can go to your local Barnes and Nobles to get a copy if they're still on the shelves and they have been selling out. Or you can order directly through Barnes and Noble, or you can go to Amazon, or you can go directly to the Simon & Schuster website. It's everywhere books are sold, even to your local bookstore, which I do encourage you to support. If they don't carry in your local bookstore, you can request them to order. That way they can get a percentage of that sale to help support your local bookstore, but it's literally everywhere books are sold. Any other places that people should know about where they can know more about you and all the great stuff you're doing? Obviously there's your Instagram handle.
[1:11:28] Yeah. The best source of contacting me or to follow what I've been doing is directly through my Instagram, Dom's Thompson, specifically.
[1:11:37] Or you can go to Eat What Elephants Eat, which is also our IG, Eat What Elephants Eat. That's the food company. And you won't see much as me on there, but you can see some of these amazing recipes. But yeah, the best way to contact me from Instagram to TikTok and more is the at Dom's Thompson and on Facebook as well. Fabulous. Well, Dom, thanks so much for spending some time with me today and talking about, eat what elephants eat. And I, as we talked about before we kind of went live here, I know this was a serious labor of love. You spent years on it and congratulations on crossing the finish line. I appreciate that. Thank you so much. Um, and thank you for this opportunity. Yeah. And Dom, I want to have you back on the podcast when it's getting ready, when we're getting ready to roll out the new movie about your life yes i would love to yes count me in for that i can't wait to share more about the movie yeah bts behind the scenes it's an incredible feature multi-million dollar movie project and i'm really excited about it yeah yeah well so are we so are we excited about everything you're doing all the great work all right dom you have a great one and so brother can you kind of get a PLANTSTRONG fist bump on the way.
[1:12:59] Boom there we go you too brother and i hope to see you soon i already told adam uh when me and rod drive cross country to la you guys are a pit stop on the way back so we can get some pickleball in i don't know if you know but i'm really good at pickleball really let's do it.
[1:13:19] All right brother i'll see you soon bye, Eat What Elephants Eat is available now wherever books are sold. And as usual, I'll be sure to put a link in today's show notes to make that super duper easy for you. It's a beautiful transformation story. Absolutely. But it's also a tool for your own self-discovery. When you dig deep into your own heart, what is it that you want to be? Like Dom and like all the elephants, I know I want to continue to be and always be Plant Strong. Thanks so much for listening, and I'll see you next week. The PLANTSTRONG podcast team includes Carrie Barrett, Laurie Kortowich, and Ami Mackey. If you like what you hear, do us a favor and share the show with your friends and loved ones. You can always leave a five-star rating and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And while you're there, make sure to hit that follow button so that you never miss an episode. As always, this and every episode is dedicated to my parents, Dr. Caldwell B. Esselstyn Jr. And Anne Crile Esselstyn. Thanks so much for listening.
