#158: Jane and Ann Esselstyn - Be a Plant-Based Woman Warrior
Rip with Ann and Jane at the Esselstyn Family Farm
It’s time to live fierce, stay bold, and eat deliciously with my Mom, Ann, and sister, Jane Esselstyn!
That’s right, we’re celebrating the release of their new book, Be a Plant-Based Woman Warrior, which is out and available now.
It’s always a party with these two and I’m fortunate to have had the opportunity to be with them in person just a few weeks ago when we were all together at the Esselstyn Family Farm. You know what that means – it can get a little nutty when the three of us are together because that Esselstyn feistiness is ALIVE and WELL!
Be a Plant-Based Woman Warrior isn’t your typical cookbook. Truly, it’s a peek into our family history with stories, photos, quotes, and recipes from three generations of Esselstyns. Mostly, this book pays homage to the people who started it all - my parents - for forging and navigating that undiscovered path of plant-based nutrition at a time when no one understood how vital it was (including me and my siblings).
Here we all are decades later and I’m so proud to sit with Jane and Ann and share some of the inspiration and recipes with you today. My Mother has been called the “Julia Child of Plant-Based cooking” and you’ll see why after you dig through some of the recipes and photos in this gorgeous book. This truly is a fun and inspiring message of hope for all women to improve their own health so that they remain strong, bold, and fierce in body and mind!
(and let’s face it – there aren’t many people MORE fierce than Jane and Ann!)
More About Be a Plant-Based Woman Warrior
At eighty-six and fifty-six, respectively, Ann and Jane are pictures of ageless health and vibrancy and spend their days hiking, doing yoga, gardening, cooking, and spreading the message that diet is the key to living a happy, strong, and disease-free life. Be a Plant-Based Woman Warrior explains how women everywhere can pass on this important legacy in their own families through the generations, and illuminates how plants powerfully support a woman’s body and mind. This cookbook is a call to action and a message of hope for any and all to be Plant-Based Women Warriors filled with vitality and in control of their own health.
Episode Resources
Order Be a Plant-Based Woman Warrior
Jane and Ann’s YouTube Channel
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Full YouTube Transcript
Rip Esselstyn:
All right, my plant-strong broccolinis, if you don't have a ticket yet for Plant-Stock 2022, what in the world are you waiting for? I want you to join us September 9th to the 11th. It's a virtual event. No excuses whatsoever. Save the date as we rock and roll with the biggest broc stars in the plant-based space. We're going to head into each one of their kitchens. You get a bird's eye view into their kitchens, and we're going to cook with these broc stars and we're going to serve up all these delicious and inspiring whole food, plant-strong, oil-free recipes that are going to help you maximize your lifestyle, crush your health goals and your health span goals. For the full lineup of this year's awesome weekend, visit plantstrong.com/plant-stock. One ticket get you access for the entire household. Gather your family and friends and join ours. I cannot wait to see you in just a few weeks.
Jane Esselstyn:
I really meant this as a tip of the hat to my mom, because as she said earlier in the podcast that my dad came home with this theory about how to prevent, or he used to call it arresting and reversing heart disease and a lot of just chronic Western diseases. So he came home with this theory and my mom was the one who took this theory and put it into practice. She made this happen. I mean, my dad can make his morning oats, but then that's it. He didn't have time. He didn't learn. He's a genius in what he does. He's got mad skills in the surgical theater, but she made it happen. She was a full-time job, four kids and a husband who worked full-time. She would shop, cook, create and invent this new way of eating.
Rip Esselstyn:
I'm Rip Esselstyn, and welcome to the PLANTSTRONG podcast. The mission at Plant-Strong is to further the advancement of all things within the plant-based movement. We advocate for the scientifically proven benefits of plant-based living and envision a world that universally understands, promotes and prescribes plants as a solution to empowering your health, enhancing your performance, restoring the environment and becoming better guardians to the animals we share this planet with. We welcome you wherever you are on your Plant-Strong journey. And I hope that you enjoy this show.
I've got to give you all a big kale to the yeah, because I want you to get fired up because today I'm going to sit down with two of the most amazing women that I know, and we are going to live fierce, stay bold and eat delicious, with none other than my mother, Ann, and my sister, Jane. They've been on the podcast before, but not for this reason. That's because we are celebrating the release of their new cookbook, Be A Plant-Based Woman Warrior, which is out and available right this second.
Now, it is always a party with these two. And we were fortunate enough that we all kind of convalesced at the Esselstyn family farm a few weeks ago, and I'm sure you know what that means. It can get a little nutty when the three of us are together because that Esselstyn feistiness is alive and well. Now, of course I am super biased, but I want you to know that this isn't your typical cookbook. Truly, it's a peek into our family's history with wonderful stories, incredible photos, inspiring quotes, and delicious recipes from three generations of Esselstyns.
Now, mostly, Jane and Ann pay homage to the people who started it all Ann and Essy, for forging and navigating that undiscovered world of plant-based nutrition at a time when virtually no one understood how vital it was for our health, including myself and my two brothers and my sister, Jane. Here we are, all of us, decades later, and I am so smitten to be able to sit down with Jane and Ann and share some of the inspiration and recipes with you today that are in this cookbook.
My mother Ann has been called the Julia Child of plant-based cooking. And I think you'll see why after you dig through some of the recipes and photos in this fantastic cookbook, and the absolute same thing can be said of my sister, Jane. This truly is a fun and inspiring message of hope for all women to improve their own health so they can remain strong, bold, and fierce in body and mind alike. So let's do it. Let's jump in with Jane and Ann and let's become plant-based women warriors. Here we are, Jane and Ann, another episode of the Plant-Strong Podcast.
Ann Esselstyn:
Woo-hoo.
Rip Esselstyn:
Now, if I'm not mistaken, this is the third time that you guys, as a team, have appeared on the Plant-Strong Podcast.
Jane Esselstyn:
I think so. I think so.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. And this is a very special podcast because you guys have launched something really special. And Jane, how long have you guys worked on this project?
Ann Esselstyn:
Wait, what's the name of the project?
Women:
Be A Plant-Based Woman Warrior: Live Fierce, Stay Bold, Eat Delicious.
Jane Esselstyn:
We actually got-
Rip Esselstyn:
What a team.
Jane Esselstyn:
What a team, what a team. But we got this project March 7th, 2020, so right before the world went sideways and we felt so lucky because not only did we have this project together, but we had something to do. Because no one knew where this whole COVID thing was going. So we had this project, something to do. And the third best thing about it is that we are next-door neighbors, not across the street, but next door, the little pine needle path going back and forth. So we had this project to work on and food to share all throughout the last, well, it's been three years now, but it's been in production for a year.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, what I love, too, is that in the book you have photos of the cozy little pine needle path that actually takes you from 2 Pepper Ridge Road, to is it 3?
Ann Esselstyn:
3 Pepper Ridge.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jane Esselstyn:
Our street is anarchistic. It makes no sense, numbers-wise, so yes, we are side by side, 2 and 3.
Ann Esselstyn:
2 and 3.
Jane Esselstyn:
Even and odd.
Rip Esselstyn:
So I want to dive deep into, into this book and the inner workings of it. But first we are at the farm, the Esselstyn family farm. We are here as a whole big, Plant-Strong clan for, gosh, about another week. I know you're leaving soon, but have we had a blast or what?
Ann Esselstyn:
Amazing.
Jane Esselstyn:
It's been so fun because it's Brian and my 25th wedding anniversary. And I, of course, gave all the brothers and their family's marching orders. They had to all come with a dish and they had to come with a family dance. So we had the coolest dances that everyone gave Brian and me, if you will, for our 25th wedding anniversary. I mean, that's the best gift you can get in my book. Because I love dancing and I love family.
Rip Esselstyn:
So there were 20 of us, right?
Jane Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
There were 20 of us that night.
Jane Esselstyn:
We had some plus-ones.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Ann Esselstyn:
21. My sister was there.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Yeah. And just the plant-based extravaganza that was served, which we're going to talk about here in a second, the games that we played, the toasts that were made, the dancing, the creativity. Will you share one of the... Well, I thought it was the best creative, I guess, what would it be? Creative-
Ann Esselstyn:
Where are you going?
Rip Esselstyn:
... game. Game. Game, that you asked each family to do, or each person to do, which was, you've got to be a vegetable.
Ann Esselstyn:
Crile.
Jane Esselstyn:
Oh, Crile.
Ann Esselstyn:
Crile.
Rip Esselstyn:
Was that Crile's idea?
Jane Esselstyn:
Well, Crile, our daughter, took the responsibility for our family because I sort of did the introduction, glide down the stairs like Ginger Rogers and Fred Astaire. Anyway, she had everybody act like a vegetable, behave, move, dance.
Ann Esselstyn:
You had to announce your vegetable and then be your vegetable.
Jane Esselstyn:
Your fruit or vegetable. So we had like bunches of grapes rolling along the yard. We had-
Ann Esselstyn:
Asparagus.
Jane Esselstyn:
... heads of romaine prancing across the yard. We had-
Rip Esselstyn:
Dinosaur kale.
Jane Esselstyn:
Dinosaur kale. Argh! That was a great one.
Rip Esselstyn:
We had snap peas. We had Brussels sprouts. Anyway, this is a game that I encourage you all to play the next time you have friends over. It is a great after dinner or before dinner game.
Jane Esselstyn:
Yes. Or between courses.
Rip Esselstyn:
So I want to talk for a second, before we dive into this, about each of your journeys, because keep in mind, this audience, this Plant-Strong audience is growing and maybe some people don't know the background as much, but can you give us the Reader's Digest version of your journey to whole food, plant-based?
Ann Esselstyn:
Well, it started with my husband, who is, of course, the reason why we're all plant based. And he is the reason that we are fiercely plant based, actually. He started back around '83 to take his general surgeon-
Rip Esselstyn:
As in 1983.
Ann Esselstyn:
Did I say-
Rip Esselstyn:
You said '83.
Ann Esselstyn:
Oh. 1983.
Rip Esselstyn:
Not 1883.
Jane Esselstyn:
Ice cream cone on that.
Rip Esselstyn:
Ice cream.
Ann Esselstyn:
I could lick it if it were an ice cream cone, but this is not.
Rip Esselstyn:
She has a tendency to... It floats, it floats away.
Ann Esselstyn:
So he took on the heart disease patients who were really at their wits' end of living. They were ready for the grave. And he gave them a plant-based diet and they miraculously made an incredible recovery.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Yeah.
Ann Esselstyn:
So we were on our way. And before he did that, we had to go plant-based. He felt that there's no way he could ask his patients to do it if he wasn't doing it. So of course I took it on and there was no internet, no cookbooks that I had. Maybe there in the west coast, there was the Mary and John McDougal, but they were on the west coast and that was far, far away back then. And we didn't have friends, people. I mean, the word vegan and vegetarian were kind of weird words. But we did it. We did it. One of the things that really helped us do it was we had been in Puerto Rico. My husband had been speaking there relating to the thyroid, parathyroid world of his, and we had had rice and beans and loved it.
So that is where we actually started out eating and, believe it or not, it is where we've ended up. It is our favorite meal. It is all our family's favorite meal. It is our Christmas Eve meal when we have guests. But we did it, and all of you can do it. The one thing I feel strongly about is that everybody today is at such a disadvantage, and we were so lucky back there then, because there was no vegan junk food. There was no substitute for ice cream. There was no substitute for hamburger.
So there was nothing to tempt us in that other world as if we were being good by doing it. Because the key thing I can say, and I say it all the time, is you have to read ingredients. If you know that you are not eating meat, you're not eating dairy and you're not eating oil, then read the ingredients and you will be horrified at the long list which you have to have a magnifying glass to read.
Rip Esselstyn:
Thank you, Ann. Jane, you were obviously well aware of what Essy was doing. When did you decide, okay, this sounds pretty good, I'm in, I'm on board?
Jane Esselstyn:
On the plant-based?
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Jane Esselstyn:
I, as a kid, never liked meat, so it was kind of easy for me to jump into this. And I was a freshman in college, so I was like 17, 18 when I called home and our brother, Zeb, who was still at home, said, "Hey Jane, Mom and Daddy are doing something weird. We're not eating any more meat or dairy or oil or sugar or salt." I'm like, "Goodness." Like everyone says, "Well, what are you eating?" And it actually sounded fine. And so I came home from college right about then, and I just haven't looked back. So I'd say right around... I mean, you did the same thing. We had to transition. I hate that word for this but we-
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, from college into-
Jane Esselstyn:
We were all college kids launching ourselves into life, but my parents just kind of luckily tucked this into us right as we were making our way and it hit us all at an advantageous time. I know I was swimming for Michigan. I was a scholarship swimmer at the University of Michigan. You were a triathlete, professional triathlete. Another brother was swimming for his university, all four of us actually. So to eat this way and feel good and feel okay and strong and swimming and being an athlete, the proof was in the pudding if you will. And I don't know, we just stuck with it. Haven't looked back.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, exactly. And I noticed that, in this dedication to this book, you dedicated it to Essy.
Jane Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Ann Esselstyn:
He's the reason.
Jane Esselstyn:
He's the shoulders upon which we all stand.
Rip Esselstyn:
That's right. And I also noticed in here that you say that the fiercest person that you know in the world is who?
Jane Esselstyn:
My mom.
Rip Esselstyn:
And why is that? What makes her fierce?
Jane Esselstyn:
Well-
Ann Esselstyn:
I roar.
All:
Hear me roar.
Ann Esselstyn:
Eat this. Read ingredients. There's coconut oil in that. Don't eat it.
Jane Esselstyn:
Yes, Mommy.
Ann Esselstyn:
Try this. It's delicious.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, what's funny is that, with the antics that you're pulling right now, there's a quote in here from Jane's husband, Brian Hart. And he basically says, "Ann is a bully, but a bully for good." You are. You are, and it's adorable. You're an adorable bully.
Ann Esselstyn:
Right. And I tell you, it really works. Really, it did. Rip has three children and it particularly works on two of his three children, and Hope will try absolutely anything I ask her to try. Cole will sort of, and Sophie will refuse to try anything.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, you got her to try a grape once.
Ann Esselstyn:
No, but she's great. I tell you, Rip, I have been blown away by the sandwiches that Sophie builds with hummus-
Jane Esselstyn:
Hope or Sophie?
Rip Esselstyn:
Sophie?
Ann Esselstyn:
Sophie. Sophie, builds with-
Rip Esselstyn:
I think you mean Hope.
Ann Esselstyn:
No. I mean Sophie. Sophie. They are beautiful. She puts sprouts. She puts some avocado. She puts arugula. I mean, they are amazing. Amazing. So she's learned.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Well, you're very persuasive. You definitely are.
Jane Esselstyn:
So Sophie and Hope are plant based women warriors in training.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yes, they are.
Jane Esselstyn:
Indeed. On the rise.
Rip Esselstyn:
So you guys, Jane, you've been living next to Ann now for how many years?
Jane Esselstyn:
We have been living next door on Pepper Ridge Road for probably 16, 17 years.
Rip Esselstyn:
Okay. 16, 17 years. I mean, how would you say your relationship with Ann has developed over the last 16 years? I mean, do you feel closer to her now than you ever have?
Jane Esselstyn:
Well, it's a mother-daughter relationship.
Ann Esselstyn:
She's the boss, Jane is.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, but it's-
Jane Esselstyn:
Says the boss.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. But you guys work together now. You're YouTube sensations. You create books together.
Ann Esselstyn:
Rip.
Rip Esselstyn:
What?
Ann Esselstyn:
It's all Jane. All Jane. This book is all Jane.
Jane Esselstyn:
And every time we have a demo, every time we have a video, every time we have anything, I'll put it together. I'll go to the store. I'll shop I'll prep. I'll mise en place, I'll get ready. And then Mommy comes and she says, "Jane, I have nothing to say. You start. You go." So I'll say, "Hi, this is..." and she'll go, "Let me just say. Let me just did, let me..." and before I know, it's all her. And that's what everybody actually learns the most from and I think loves the most.
Rip Esselstyn:
Ann, you're very real and authentic to the core. Now, so this-
Jane Esselstyn:
The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
Rip Esselstyn:
This is your, what, sixth book? I mean, collectively. Collectively, is this your-
Jane Esselstyn:
Well, you could say Mommy wrote all the recipes in Daddy's book.
Rip Esselstyn:
I know.
Jane Esselstyn:
And then she wrote the book with me, Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease Cookbook. And so this is, in a way, her third and it's my fifth, but we've overlapped for two. So I don't know.
Ann Esselstyn:
But Jane, you did the recipes in Rip's books.
Jane Esselstyn:
Yeah. Well, that's what I'm saying. That's the fifth book I've worked on or been a part of. I mean, I've always collaborated. I always have a co-creator.
Rip Esselstyn:
And for those that are wondering, tell me what are the guidelines for the recipes that are in this book?
Jane Esselstyn:
Our guidelines for this book, the Be A Plant-Based Woman Warrior: Live Fierce, Stay Bold, Eat Delicious, are the same as all of our books, which are really basic guidelines. I mean, we could just hand out a one-page flyer saying, "No meat, no dairy, no added oil, minimal salt and minimal sweet." That's it. And because we do so much work with heart disease patients, the people who are really sick and need to be compliant with guidelines, Rip had coin something, my parents' work, as Plant-Perfect. And the Plant-Perfect-
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, here they are. I'm just looking at them.
Jane Esselstyn:
The Plant-Perfect is really no meat, no dairy, no added oil, minimum salt, minimum sweet, Plant-Perfect. But Plant-Strong, same exact guidelines, but we do use a little bit of avocado and some nuts and some sauces in particular and some desserts. But that difference of some avocado nuts is a world of flavor and possibility and your tongue is so happy. So it's tricky because people think, "Wait, you said no this, no that." But we're talking Plant-Perfect for heart disease patients. And we do not wiggle on that at all.
Ann Esselstyn:
And it is a world of difference for those patients who can really stick on those guidelines of no meat, no oil, no dairy and no nuts and avocado if they have heart disease.
Jane Esselstyn:
Yeah. And the Plant-Perfect... Sorry, Plant-Strong, Rip's guidelines and his whole branding, is just that, like a little bit of nuts and a little bit of option.
Ann Esselstyn:
And what our wonderful Avery has done in this book. Tell them, Jane.
Jane Esselstyn:
Penguin Publishing. Avery's our sub editor. They went through all the recipes because they know that we are sort of known for heart disease prevention. They went through to make sure that the recipes in here that are compliant with our heart disease guidelines are labeled as heart disease-friendly recipes. And if for some reason they're not, we have options to how you can change it. For example, if a salad has some walnuts in or toasted pecans, we'll say, "To make this heart disease-friendly, remove the pecans." It's that simple. Some recipes, you cannot make them heart disease-friendly, so they just don't even say so.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, that's really smart that you guys did that. So if you guys are cool with it, what I'd love to do right now is walk through some of the recipes.
Ann Esselstyn:
Rip, I have one thing I have to do. I know you're right and we're going to do that. But there are just three things that I want to read to you. I talked earlier about getting Rip's children to eat. And one of my jobs in this book was to interview our children, grandchildren, how they felt about living plant based. So-
Jane Esselstyn:
There's 10 of them.
Ann Esselstyn:
There are 10 of them, but I just want to read three of them. One of them is not Rip's, and that is Georgie, who was eight. And she said, "Without being plant based, I can't imagine how I'd live. I'd open the refrigerator and see things like chicken wrapped in plastic and just feel like, what happened?" But my favorite quote in the book is from Hope, Rip's youngest, who is an amazing cook herself. And she was seven. And this is what she said. "If you eat meat, you die." That was Hope. But this is Sophie, who was aged 11.
Jane Esselstyn:
Can I get a kid in there?
Ann Esselstyn:
No. I just want to do these three. I mean, you can add a kid. "Whenever I eat good food, I feel good. And whenever I eat unhealthy food, something in my stomach just feels wrong. I'm lucky because it's been easy for me since I've been plant-based my whole life," or plant-strong. "Plant-strong doesn't mean just eating salads all the time. It means so many fun, unique things like a kale cake with raspberry frosting, not just vanilla frosting with pink dye in it, but lemons and raspberries. And it's just really fun and tasty." So maybe that is a good lead-in to the food.
Jane Esselstyn:
Yes.
Rip Esselstyn:
Did you want to read something? Are you good?
Jane Esselstyn:
No, no, no. They're good. They're all good.
Rip Esselstyn:
Okay. They're all great.
Ann Esselstyn:
They're all good. They're all good, those.
Rip Esselstyn:
So if you don't mind, first, what I'd love to do is just say, and you moved... Oh, there we go. I just want to go through quickly the different chapters of all the food, because I think you guys have done a brilliant job putting this all together. And the first is powerful breakfast. I mean, come on, we got to start today with a powerful breakfast. Yee-haw.
Ann Esselstyn:
You got to start the day with oats in some way. That's what I think.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well then, you know what? Let's just take it one at a time, then. So let's start with powerful breakfasts. So I have gone through and kind of earmarked some of the ones that really caught my attention. For example, if you could... No, no, you don't get to see this. This is my notes.
Jane Esselstyn:
I know. I know. I know. Okay. I want to talk about the wise women, though.
Ann Esselstyn:
We can edit this out.
Rip Esselstyn:
So, wait, what did you want to bring up?
Jane Esselstyn:
No, I just feel like, right now, before we dive into the recipes, I kind of wanted to talk about why we decided to call this Plant-Based Woman Warriors. It's the title and it's kind of the push of a lot of the text in the beginning. And so it's not just another plant-based cookbook, in some ways. I mean, it is. It is. But it's sort of the push behind it was that I really meant this as a tip of the hat to my mom. Because as she said earlier in the podcast that my dad came home with this theory about how to prevent or he used to call it arresting and reversing heart disease and a lot of just chronic Western diseases.
So he came home with this theory and my mom was the one who took this theory and put it into practice. She made this happen. I mean, my dad can make his morning oats, but then that's it. Like he didn't have time. He didn't learn. He's genius in what he does. He's got mad skills in the surgical theater, but she made it happen. She was a full-time job, four kids and a husband who worked full-time. She would shop, cook, create and invent this new way of eating.
Ann Esselstyn:
And spend all night correcting papers.
Jane Esselstyn:
And correct her sixth-grade essays all night long. So this is the tip of the hat to her. I want to be a plant-based woman like her and have the energy, the gumption, the knowhow, the can-do, to do that. And also it's a tip of the hat to, it's mostly women. I know it's not everybody, but the majority of people in the world who think about, shop for, choose, prep, create and serve food, are women. Of course, not everybody. I don't want to get put pushback on that. I understand.
My husband's a way better chef than I am. But the majority of us are women. So I'm just saying, be bold, be fierce. You can be delicious. I've seen it happen. And the third reason why this is for women, is that being a female, in America in particular, because that's where I grew up, you, as a female, have a burden on you that is unique. And any female out there knows what I'm talking about. It is this invisible, heavy expectation about your body and your food and your shape and your presentation, your identity, it's this wrapped up mess of a thing.
I feel so lucky that plant-based came into my life when it did, because all four of us, Rip, Ted, Jane, Zeb, all four of us were nationally ranked swimmers when we were in our prime. And I know my brothers didn't think for one minute about... They didn't have any brain space about what they were eating and how it affected their body size and what they looked like or how they felt or what fit them anymore. Whereas I was this crazy fit, nationally-ranked swimmer for the University of Michigan, and I would wake up and just be overwhelmed with like, what the heck am I going to be able to eat today so I can swim and perform and be fed and also be satisfied and also not keep growing and getting these curves that I'm not feeling comfortable in?
And again, plant-based eating kind of came into my life just then. How fortunate I feel I am because it cut off all this, as a friend of mine coined it, food head, which is just that you wake up with that heavy worry and burden about who you are, your identity, your body, your food, and how you're going to move forward. And plant-based eating really removed that food head.
It's so nice. I don't have a scale to look at the numbers. I don't count a single calorie. I wouldn't even know how to. We don't count steps that we do. We don't count serving sizes. People are always texting us, or writing, "What's a serving size?" And we're like, "We have no idea." No idea. And it's such freedom. That's why this is really for women who just biologically were kind of a little different in that way.
Ann Esselstyn:
I mean, it's freedom because we did not want people burdened with how many calories, how many grams of fat, how much protein, there's protein in everything, and just to be able to eat freely. However, when I say eat freely, there are so many people that call my husband who say, "Help. I'm losing too much weight eating plant-based." Well, duh. There's no meat, no oil, no dairy, so you got to eat enough calories when you're moving to plant-based, if you are of a normal weight to begin with, and if you want to lose weight, it'll happen.
Rip Esselstyn:
For a lot of people, that's a great problem to have, right?
Ann Esselstyn:
Right. And if you are trying to lose weight, then you can consciously not eat a lot of bread and pasta and rolls and bagels.
Jane Esselstyn:
Less processed things.
Ann Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
So Jane, when I read that chapter about the food head and how you were experiencing that, it made me realize that I've never talked to you about that.
Jane Esselstyn:
Yeah, you were the crazy fit older brother who didn't have to think about it at all.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, I know, but I think it's great that you are... Obviously, it's part of this book, it's part of you sharing that experience and I applaud you for it.
Jane Esselstyn:
Thank you.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. It's great.
Ann Esselstyn:
You should tell that story. Keep going.
Rip Esselstyn:
Okay. Story? No story?
Jane Esselstyn:
I don't know. Which one?
Ann Esselstyn:
I can't remember. I can't remember.
Rip Esselstyn:
So she says, "Tell that story." "Which one?" "I can't remember." Okay, so we'll list-
Jane Esselstyn:
The "no fat chicks?"
Ann Esselstyn:
About chicks.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, if you want to.
Jane Esselstyn:
Oh, well-
Ann Esselstyn:
I did remember, it's just that... Go ahead.
Jane Esselstyn:
No, I was supposed to go skiing over one, decades and decades ago, with... I've got three brothers. So I was heading out with my brothers to go with another brother to meet up with all these people and friends. And so at one point we were gathering together at this location, at actually our house in Cleveland, to go somewhere and watched one of their friends. And, again, we're all big swimmers, strong, big, fun, healthy fit people. This guy had a shirt on that had a circle with a line through it. And there was a chicken on it and it looked like he was saying, "No chickens," but it said, "No fat chicks." And that just encapsulated so much of what I was experiencing in my life, it's in the 80s, of oh my gosh, he's able to wear this shirt saying, "Hey, no fat chicks in my visual sphere," or I don't even what it's saying.
Rip Esselstyn:
In my orbit.
Jane Esselstyn:
In his orbit. I saw that and it was like a punch. I didn't know how to think. I was like, I've got fat on my body. And I hate the word chick so much. I can't even explain it. And I hid upstairs underneath my mom's desk behind her filing cabinet. I didn't know what I was. I've never experienced that feeling in my own home with this person coming in and wearing this. Like, if my brothers were wearing it, I'd be like, "You can't wear that." I would've been like, "Dude." But can I do this to this person I'm supposed to be going on this trip with? And I ended up not going on the trip because of this shirt. And I hope no one goes on a trip with anyone with that shirt.
Rip Esselstyn:
Or you have a very frank conversation and it's an opportunity for growth for all parties.
Jane Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
Right?
Jane Esselstyn:
Yeah. But that's like asking the wounded to help-
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, ask for help, then. Ask for help.
Jane Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. So let's move on to some fun stuff.
Jane Esselstyn:
That's like this woman warrior effort behind it. And that's why I'm so happy to have, I've got three brothers, but I have my mom with whom to do this.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. So let's start with breakfast. Powerful Breakfast. I saw something in here that I'm like, I want to go home and make this immediately. Because I want y'all to know, this is my first time looking at this book. I've been able to look through it now for three days. So the first is Apple Flax Flapjacks. They look so adorable.
Ann Esselstyn:
Crile.
Jane Esselstyn:
Crile.
Ann Esselstyn:
Jane's oldest daughter invented that.
Jane Esselstyn:
Well, I think it's probably out there, people making it, but it's this pancake batter that you have pancake batter and then you take an apple and you slice it, not how you would think, but you slice it kind of horizontally. So you're making sort of ring-
Ann Esselstyn:
With a hole in the center.
Jane Esselstyn:
... that have the core out of the center so they look like-
Rip Esselstyn:
Donuts.
Jane Esselstyn:
Donuts, because you put the apple slices in the batter and then cook them, flip them. It's so clever and yummy.
Rip Esselstyn:
I can't wait to do it. And at first I'm like, oh my God, you got donuts in this book. Okay. This is like such a vintage, quintessential breakfast that I would love for you to just talk about it for a second, and that is you-
Ann Esselstyn:
Everybody has to do this. Everybody has to do this.
Rip Esselstyn:
Your Warrior Oats.
Jane Esselstyn:
Woo-hoo!
Ann Esselstyn:
It's imperative that everybody at least try it. It's steel-cut oats, turmeric. It's everything you should be eating every day. It's got a little sriracha. It has nutritional yeast. It has shiitake mushrooms and a lot of kale, and water. And once you've eaten that, you are set for the day. You can go downhill, if you have to.
Jane Esselstyn:
Have it for dinner, the first time you have it, if it makes you go woo.
Ann Esselstyn:
No, at breakfast, Jane.
Jane Esselstyn:
Okay. Bully for good.
Rip Esselstyn:
I'm trying to choose one from a different kind of variety of different kind of groupings. So we have Ann's Warrior Oats. We've got the Flapjack Apple Pancakes.
Jane Esselstyn:
Apple Flax Flapjacks. It is so hard to say.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. A bit of a tongue twister. And then one of my favorite fruits in the whole wild world is bananas. And so I saw banana muffins or bread and I just like-
Ann Esselstyn:
It's my recipe. Guess what? It was the first recipe in the Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease, and it has been-
Jane Esselstyn:
When she tweaked a few-
Ann Esselstyn:
... tweaked for here. It's wonderful.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Okay. So the next section, and there's so many. Oh, well actually-
Ann Esselstyn:
Grits and Greens.
Rip Esselstyn:
Grits and Greens, because grits, I think I've had grits three times in my life.
Jane Esselstyn:
It's polenta. You've had it way more. Polenta is greens, or polenta is grits.
Rip Esselstyn:
Of course, we advocate for people to have greens several times a day. So this is a nice way to knock some back early on. But what else can you tell me about Grits and Greens?
Jane Esselstyn:
Grits and Greens, I want to say this recipe came from a great friend, Travis, who you've met.
Rip Esselstyn:
Oh my God.
Jane Esselstyn:
She's one of my favorite people on earth. She's from the South and grits in the South are usually like... They're greasy. You can imagine what goes into grits in the South, especially if you live down there. It's a salty, greasy thing, or however you want to have it. This is a total different take on it. She just has it with so much kale or Swiss chard and she makes the grits kind of creamy because she makes creamy with broth, vegetable broth, or with some oat milk or maybe some soy milk and a little, little bit of hot sauce. And they're delicious. Brian and I eat this three times a week now, with beans.
Ann Esselstyn:
It's kind of scary because anytime I go over, every night, Jane and Brian are eating grits and greens.
Jane Esselstyn:
Grits and greens.
Rip Esselstyn:
Okay. So let's-
Jane Esselstyn:
We just have a fan blowing.
Rip Esselstyn:
So let's move on to sauces.
Jane Esselstyn:
Secret weapons!
Ann Esselstyn:
You're not going to believe it.
Jane Esselstyn:
Secret Weapons.
Ann Esselstyn:
Tell them about it.
Rip Esselstyn:
No, no. well-
Ann Esselstyn:
Wait, wait, wait, Rip.
Rip Esselstyn:
What?
Ann Esselstyn:
You've got to listen to this, why Secret Weapons is second.
Rip Esselstyn:
Oh, sure.
Ann Esselstyn:
Jane.
Jane Esselstyn:
Okay. The publisher just said, "You guys have all these breakfast, lunch, dinner, da da da da. But you keep saying that the sauces are the answer to everything and they're your secret weapons and this is how you can go forward and this is what makes all the difference. Can we put it first?" And then we were like, "Let's put breakfast first and then you can put the secret weapons." Because we actually do use some sort of sauce, hummus, dressing, salsa or a guacamole in everything thereafter. So they were clever in putting it right there.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, so the other night, and I posted this on Instagram, you posted it on Instagram. People were just like, are eating it up. And that you made these huge three bowls with different whole food ingredients from-
Jane Esselstyn:
Bowl was this big.
Rip Esselstyn:
Big wooden bowls, just crazy wonderful, gorgeous. And each one you had the carrots, the tofu cubes, the purple cabbage, whatever it was. But each one was a little bit different.
Ann Esselstyn:
Rice noodles, brown rice noodles.
Jane Esselstyn:
Rice noodles, or brown rice. Napa cabbage. Purple cabbage. Fresh tomatoes. Da da da da da.
Rip Esselstyn:
And you said you were inspired by that by-
Jane Esselstyn:
By PlantYou, Carleigh-
Rip Esselstyn:
Carleigh Bodrug. But on each one you used one of these different secret weapons.
Jane Esselstyn:
Ooh, yes. Yes.
Rip Esselstyn:
So on one, you had a lemon tahini.
Jane Esselstyn:
We had a lemon tahini sauce on one.
Rip Esselstyn:
On one, you had a Thai peanut.
Jane Esselstyn:
Thai peanut.
Rip Esselstyn:
And one, you had a walnut ginger.
Jane Esselstyn:
Yep.
Rip Esselstyn:
If I'm not mistaken.
Jane Esselstyn:
Yep. Good memory.
Ann Esselstyn:
All sauces in here under Secret Weapons.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. I want to try every one of them, but what about watermelon salsa? What can you tell me about that?
Jane Esselstyn:
Because salsa, obviously, is just chopped up vegetables and herbs, something herbaceous, something sort of onion, garlic. Whatever you like, you can make a salsa out of. And we have found in some of the books that we did, is that we didn't move from just like tomato salsa to corn salsa, but from corn salsa to mango salsa, and then to peach salsa. And we have got a grape and radish salsa in one of our books. It's one of your, our books.
I was trying to make salsa one night and I didn't have anything fruity or sweet. Because I kind of come like a little bit of the balance of the sweet with the onion, kind of almost coming from the chutney family. So I put in tiny little cubes, I mean, not minced watermelon, but just micro-cubed watermelon with all the other sort of typical salsa stuff. And it was so yummy and refreshing, because salsa brings a moisture and this refreshment and pop a flavor to whatever dish you're using. So that was a ton of fun to make that one.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. And then of course-
Ann Esselstyn:
You know, Rip, one of the salsas that actually, truthfully, started in Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease and has been truthfully, in some way or another, repeated in every book of yours and every book of ours is our mango, salsa, mango, lime bean salad.
Rip Esselstyn:
Love, love, love.
Ann Esselstyn:
Rip has been talking this time with all our family that he wants to make a lime mango.
Rip Esselstyn:
No, I want to make it arugula.
Ann Esselstyn:
Arugula.
Rip Esselstyn:
Arugula, cannellini bean, mango, Mandarin orange salad.
Ann Esselstyn:
Yum.
Jane Esselstyn:
Is there bean in that?
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Cannellini.
Ann Esselstyn:
But you've got to have...
Rip Esselstyn:
Okay. Okay. Yes. What about like the Lightning Dressing? Because that's kind of a tried and true-
Jane Esselstyn:
Zing, zing, zing, zing.
Ann Esselstyn:
Awesome. Jane's Lightening Bowl.
Jane Esselstyn:
That's from the Engine 2 Cookbook, but the Lightning Dressing, all recipes have to be new in a new cookbook, but you can carry over less than 10% of recipes that are kind of thread through. Like "You need to have this walnut sauce in order to do this," or you need to have this or that. Lightning Dressing was one of the ones I carried over from the Engine 2 Cookbook to this because it is-
Ann Esselstyn:
It's Lightening Dressing.
Jane Esselstyn:
I have been struck by it and forever changed.
Rip Esselstyn:
Forever. Now, I want you to talk about Mommy's Mushroom Dressing 3.0.
Jane Esselstyn:
Gravy.
Ann Esselstyn:
Gravy.
Rip Esselstyn:
Did I say? Yeah, gravy. But first, before you go, I just want to say the photography in this is incredible
Jane Esselstyn:
Next level, baby.
Rip Esselstyn:
It is. And I just want to show you this one. Take a look at that, for example. And the background, just how pure and clean and the patina that's involved in there. I love it. And so you guys-
Ann Esselstyn:
And I am salivating thinking of that mushroom gravy on anything. It's awesome. And that mushroom gravy actually has been in our family for 30 years and it just keeps getting a little changed, a little changed, a little changed.
Jane Esselstyn:
And the way we made it better for women in this one is that, historically, it had different amounts of miso and soy sauce, but this time we changed it. And we had some Sherry in it. But as we know, alcohol and breast cancer are just not compatible. So we just like, hey, this is where we like the sodium levels or the amount of salty taste in our mouth. And this one's gluten-free as well, so it has fewer allergens. It's just kind of more user friendly for all involved. No alcohol, no wheat and less sodium. So give it a try. I think it's our best version of all.
Ann Esselstyn:
Well actually, I still love a little Sherry in my mushroom gravy because it leaves the flavor. The alcohol burns right off and that's nice.
Jane Esselstyn:
I think it's a flavor that you might be familiar with historically. I don't keep it.
Rip Esselstyn:
You've got all these different pesto sauces and avocado or walnut and cashew, that look delicious. But hummus-
Ann Esselstyn:
This is the best hummus.
Jane Esselstyn:
Hickory Smokehouse.
Rip Esselstyn:
I was going to say-
Jane Esselstyn:
Hummus.
Rip Esselstyn:
I was going to say, you've got all these hummuses. Talk to me about one that you think everybody needs to try.
Jane Esselstyn:
Hickory Smokehouse Hummus. Hickory Smokehouse Hummus.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, tell me why. What makes it so-
Jane Esselstyn:
I mean, look at all these hummi, the plural of hummus should be hummi, because we love it. The lemon hummus, Crile is crazy about that one. The black bean hummus, the roasted garlic hummus. They're all-
Rip Esselstyn:
But what is it about the Hickory Smokehouse?
Jane Esselstyn:
There's smokehouse almonds. I remember having all those. They're yummy, just smokey flavored. There's an umami to it, there's a depth of flavor that's really satisfying. Bsides that, we have a Thousand Island Hummus that we've never had before. It's so fun to make different kinds of hummus. We have a ton of hummus in our books, beat hummus and-
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Jane Esselstyn:
... and whatnot.
Rip Esselstyn:
I'm looking at a page right here and the quote is, "The right vinegar makes all the difference." That's a quote by Ann.
Ann Esselstyn:
That's true. And the thing is, we have found that some quality balsamic vinegars are stunning. For instance, actually, Rip was right. But last night we had the giant cauliflower. Rip made dinner. And he roasted it and it was amazingly delicious. And at the end I said, "Well, Rip, it just needs some balsamic vinegar on it." He wouldn't put it on, but it still was good. I think it might have been even better with balsamic vinegar.
Rip Esselstyn:
But you love balsamic vinegar because of, I think, the flavor that it gives different things. But you also love it because it has some medicinal purposes, right?
Ann Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Jane Esselstyn:
It enhances the endothelial cells to sort of do their duty of... Yeah. All the good stuff they do.
Ann Esselstyn:
And also many, including me, I don't mind some of the good balsamics just sprinkled on my salads alone with nothing else. For instance, a black bean salad with black beans, tomatoes, corn, some greens of some kind, just balsamic vinegar is amazing on that.
Rip Esselstyn:
Let's talk sandwiches.
Jane Esselstyn:
Sandwich Craft.
Rip Esselstyn:
Because I think that, while I've been here, probably every lunch has been an open-face sandwich that you have prepared. And just the other day... You can't be looking.
Ann Esselstyn:
I'm not looking.
Rip Esselstyn:
And just the other day we had some people over for lunch and you made the most gorgeous open-faced heirloom tomato and corn-
Ann Esselstyn:
Slab.
Rip Esselstyn:
Corn slab sandwiches.
Ann Esselstyn:
We've had wonderful corn the night before. And then you can cut it off in a slab and put it on top of hummus and green onions-
Jane Esselstyn:
[thumbing through book]
Ann Esselstyn:
Sprouts. Awesome. Awesome. And we also love just big slabs of summer delicious tomatoes on top of hummus with balsamic vinegar and basil, are so delicious.
Jane Esselstyn:
There's the corn slabs.
Ann Esselstyn:
There's the corn slab.
Rip Esselstyn:
And then you've also got... What's underneath it? Do you have some sort of green? Yesterday, you had some greens in there.
Ann Esselstyn:
Yeah. I just said we had sprouts. I had sprouts, arugula. What else in there? Green onions.
Rip Esselstyn:
That's good.
Ann Esselstyn:
Maybe I think I even had some radish. Just fill those sandwiches with everything you can.
Jane Esselstyn:
Purple cabbage.
Ann Esselstyn:
Purple cabbage. Purple cabbage. Purple cabbage should go everywhere you can put it. In every salad, every sandwich.
Rip Esselstyn:
I love the color and I don't know if I love the taste but-
Ann Esselstyn:
Of purple cabbage?
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Jane Esselstyn:
But you know, I've grown to love it. It's weird but I love it.
Rip Esselstyn:
And what about this, Apple Lidded Sandwich? I saw that and I was immediately like, I would love to try that.
Jane Esselstyn:
It's awesome.
Ann Esselstyn:
It is absolutely crazy. And Rip, we're going to have it tomorrow.
Jane Esselstyn:
It's bizarrely refreshing.
Ann Esselstyn:
Our son Ted was doing one of his City Branch projects in Colorado and had gone out to lunch and had something kind of similar to this, so we tried it. And what you do is, actually it was a watermelon radish, cucumber slice, and then on top you put a big apple slice and it is funny. It doesn't sound good. But when you bite into it, that sweet, wet apple-
Jane Esselstyn:
Crunch.
Ann Esselstyn:
... crunch makes that whole sandwich. I mean, you could put nothing underneath it and it would be amazingly delicious. I swear, that is one of the top sandwiches to try in this book.
Rip Esselstyn:
Do you have a-
Jane Esselstyn:
The sandwich sections actually is good. We've got a lot of great ones.
Ann Esselstyn:
And sprinkle lemon pepper on top, no salt, and that really makes it good.
Rip Esselstyn:
Is there a particular apple that you two prefer?
Ann Esselstyn:
No. I think just try and find the biggest apple you can so it covers your whole sandwich, if possible.
Jane Esselstyn:
It has to be crispy, too. I don't think a Macintosh would be the best, necessarily, but I think something with a little crispness to it.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Ann Esselstyn:
Just apple.
Jane Esselstyn:
I love Macintosh. Don't get me wrong.
Rip Esselstyn:
Right. Jane, another thing that really caught my eye in here was your Rock Around the Clock Grilled Wrap, that's right here.
Jane Esselstyn:
Those are just fun to make.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. But I just love the way you learn a new way of taking, basically, a tortilla and turning into this incredible-
Jane Esselstyn:
Grilled triangle. Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Jane Esselstyn:
Well, it's kind of, up close, you start with it and you fill in... It's called Rock Around the Clock because you fill in the first 15 minutes of, if it was a clock, with one topping and then you fold it over and then put another topping and fold it over, another topping, fold it over, so you've got all these layers that are sort of... It's sort of like a round lasagna. And then actually when you have it all in the little wedge, you grill it in a panini or in a frying pan and you've got a wonderful grilled sandwich.
Rip Esselstyn:
Can we move into talking about soups?
Jane Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
Because I would say the other thing, tell me if you guys disagree, but I think the two things that we have more for lunch, as a family, than anything else are usually soups or open-face sandwiches, right?
Jane Esselstyn:
Yeah. Great.
Rip Esselstyn:
So soups, there's a couple that caught my eye here. One was-
Ann Esselstyn:
Corn gazpacho, I bet.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, corn gazpacho absolutely did because I've never had it.
Jane Esselstyn:
Oh, it's so good. Elizabeth Thornton gave it to us.
Ann Esselstyn:
Elizabeth Thornton. When corn season is going in its full swing, and don't make this with frozen corn that isn't super sweet because you do need that really good sweet corn.
Jane Esselstyn:
We're doing this at Plant-Stock.
Ann Esselstyn:
Yeah. And it's so fun because you need to have yellow tomato and yellow pepper in it. And it is beautiful.
Rip Esselstyn:
Jane just mentioned Plant-Stock. We are having a food-inspired, chef-inspired Plan-Stock. It's our 11th anniversary, September 9th to the 11th. We hope that you join us.
Ann Esselstyn:
And we'll give you the tricks and the treats and the deliciousness of corn gazpacho.
Rip Esselstyn:
What do you guys think of this soup, New Senate Soup? The story, I love. The other thing that I love about each one of these recipes is reading the header, because it-
Jane Esselstyn:
Because you've tried to write a lot of headers yourself and you know how my goes into that, that's why.
Ann Esselstyn:
And your headers are just as good in your book, I think.
Rip Esselstyn:
But it gives you an attachment to the recipe and why it's important.
Ann Esselstyn:
Well, Jane, tell them about this one because it is really so fun what you did.
Jane Esselstyn:
Well, I learned from a neighbor of mine, who does not have the same politics as I do, that there's a soup at the Senate every day for the last 150 years or something. They've had the same soup in the Senate. It's a ham bone and salt and Navy beans and whatever. So I was like, well, we have a new Senate these days, so we need to have it be a little more reflective in the soup. So I took out the ham bone. We put in bay leaf and we put in some vegetable stock and we put in black beans, Italian parsley, and curvy-
Ann Esselstyn:
Strong vegetable-
Jane Esselstyn:
... and curvy kale and kosher salt just to have a little more diversity in expression.
Rip Esselstyn:
Black beans and Italian parsley.
Jane Esselstyn:
I think said that. So anyway, I want everyone to serve themselves a soup with their own ladle, just like everyone having a chance to pound the gavel.
Rip Esselstyn:
All right. Let's move on to another thing that I would say you're incredible at doing it. I don't know about you, and I can tell you that I'm not as good about it as I should be, and that is making Warrior Salads.
Ann Esselstyn:
Oh, that's Jane. I used to be good at that, but Jane has surpassed everybody. Her salads are to die for.
Rip Esselstyn:
Jane, well then tell me about the Wonder Woman Salad, for starters. Unless you want to talk about the Three Goddesses.
Jane Esselstyn:
Three Goddesses is kind of fun because the Three Goddesses-
Rip Esselstyn:
I got to show you this. Look at this.
Jane Esselstyn:
The Three Goddesses, the power in the salad comes from two things. It comes from obviously the foundation of what greens you're using. And here in the Three Goddesses Salad, we have kale, romaine and Napa cabbage. Those are the Three Goddesses. And we read all about how they represent the goddesses in the book. We're not going to bore you with it now, but it's exciting. So that foundation's great.
And then you have to have some cha cha on top. Just the cha cha on top of a salad makes you want to have a second bite. If it's little cucumbers or blueberries or Mandarin oranges or toasted pepitas or whatever it is, a zest of some sort, that adds so much to a salad. So yes, get some great greens going, but add some cha cha on top. And then the dressings clearly pull it all together and we have some dressings that are just amazing this time.
Rip Esselstyn:
Steal the eye right out of your head, right?
Jane Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
Kale is Athena, romaine is Isis, and Napa is Cerridwen?
Jane Esselstyn:
Cerridwen, yes. And you have to see why when you get the book. If you can pre-order it, please do. Please do, because if you pre-order, actually, you get a free recipe on my website with your receipt.
Rip Esselstyn:
Okay.
Jane Esselstyn:
But not after the 23rd.
Rip Esselstyn:
Let me see what other. You've got a whole section on arugula salads. And I just want you to know that over the last, probably three, four years, I have come to love rocket, aka, arugula. It's one of my favorite greens.
Ann Esselstyn:
Yeah. I agree. I believe that every bowl, if you're going to put other things, should have a rim of arugula and a bottom part of arugula so that it is in every bite that you're eating.
Jane Esselstyn:
What was so funny is we were collecting salads for this cookbook. We were collecting recipes and we went through all the like, "Okay, let's see what we have," mid COVID, we sort of assessed everything. And we had like four breakfasts, eight lunches, six dinners. We had 44 desserts. We knew we were on the right path for a book for women. But what was so funny is that all the salads, I had different salads of greens and this and that. And every salad my mom sent me was a different arugula salad. She'd be like, "Oh, oh, try this one. Oh, oh, try this one." And finally I'm like, "Okay, we're just going to make an Ann's arugula section."
Rip Esselstyn:
This is something that I want before I leave here, and that's the Curry Cauliflower With Lentils and Grapes.
Jane Esselstyn:
Awesome.
Rip Esselstyn:
That whole combination, cauliflower, lentils, and grapes has my mouth watering.
Ann Esselstyn:
I made it one Christmas when we had a lot of family and it was sort of a last Christmas day. Everybody brought-
Jane Esselstyn:
It was Thanksgiving.
Ann Esselstyn:
Oh, Thanksgiving. I meant Thanksgiving. Everybody was bringing something. And I was thinking, this may not hit it. Guess what? It was the first dish that was totally bare and empty and eaten.
Jane Esselstyn:
It was great. And we actually have a YouTube on it because it's-
Rip Esselstyn:
And your pro tip is to add pomegranate seeds for wonderful color at the end. Very Thanksgiving-ish. Thanksgiving-ish.
Ann Esselstyn:
That's what I was going to say.
Rip Esselstyn:
Thanksgiving-ish. Yes. Okay. So if you guys are cool, let's move on. One of the things that we eat a fair amount at our house is tofu and tempeh. We're big fans. We're not freaked out by soy because we know the fighter estrogens actually can be very, very-
Jane Esselstyn:
Protective of the breast. Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yep, yep. Which you actually do a great job explaining that here in one of the first couple of chapters. But what do you like doing with tofu and tempeh?
Jane Esselstyn:
We like to have it in all variety of ways. Usually, I like to bake it or to pan fry it. And that pan fry is dry fry, nothing oil. But we like to use usually a base of tamari, which is a low-sodium soy sauce. And sometimes that's enough, but sometimes I want to put a little kiss of maple syrup in there to give it a luster. And if you want to take it even a little further, you can put in what gives it a little more umami is some tomato paste, or if you don't have that, just use ketchup. And if you want to really be a pro, chefy-chefy, add a wee bit of ginger. You've got some teriyaki. Done and done. So easy, so fun.
Ann Esselstyn:
And Jane has made me... I love tempeh. In fact, the quick-cooked tempeh in a pan, which we do a lot for all kinds of demos
Jane Esselstyn:
When we do demos for the Esselstyn Foundation.
Ann Esselstyn:
And I tell you, it's hard to get the cooked pan-fried tempeh out of the pan and to show the audience because I am dying to eat it all. It's so delicious.
Jane Esselstyn:
Yes.
Rip Esselstyn:
For me, tempeh-
Ann Esselstyn:
You just haven't had Jane's tempeh.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, I know, but I want to figure out a way to get it more moist, and I had-
Jane Esselstyn:
It's pan-fried.
Ann Esselstyn:
It's pan-fried. You can't bake it. It's not dry.
Jane Esselstyn:
You can't bake it.
Rip Esselstyn:
I had somebody on my podcast, Cooking for Peanuts, Nisha.
Jane Esselstyn:
Oh, she's great.
Rip Esselstyn:
And she does so many incredible things with tempeh.
Jane Esselstyn:
I loved your talk with her.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Yeah. But look at, you got Chorizo Tempeh or Tofu, Apple Sage Pan-Fried Tempeh or Tofu, Savory Tempeh. And I can tell you, the cubes, tell me this, because-
Jane Esselstyn:
Sesame Ginger-Topped Tofu.
Rip Esselstyn:
Were the tofu cubes that you had in those big wooden salad bowls the other night, were those all the same variety or were they different varieties?
Jane Esselstyn:
I made six or seven tubs of tofu so those were all the same. Because I just put them all in a big dish with Sophie. She helped me make them. We just did them all with the teriyaki, which is kind of close to our basic way to do it. Yeah. It was delicious.
Ann Esselstyn:
I like, Rip and Jane, I also like using balsamic vinegar in the-
Jane Esselstyn:
Shocking.
Ann Esselstyn:
... in the tofu. I mean, tofu needs to have something to give it flavor.
Jane Esselstyn:
Shocking.
Ann Esselstyn:
Well, if you have heart disease and don't want or are concerned about the sodium, that's an alternative.
Jane Esselstyn:
You're right. You're absolutely right. Acid queen, you're right.
Ann Esselstyn:
Thank you.
Rip Esselstyn:
Let's talk appetizers. Appetizers, Sides and Clever Extras.
Ann Esselstyn:
Oh, you've got to show that picture.
Rip Esselstyn:
Oh, okay. Yeah.
Ann Esselstyn:
This is such a delicious dish. Green beans with sesame crumble on it. There's nothing as delicious as toasted sesame seeds. Ooh.
Rip Esselstyn:
The first thing that I have on my list here is, and it's called A Bunch of BS, meaning Brussels sprouts.
Ann Esselstyn:
And you're big on Brussels sprouts.
Rip Esselstyn:
I've become big on brussel sprouts, but they have to be prepared the right way. Let me just see if I can find it here.
Jane Esselstyn:
The Bunch of BS is towards the end of the section. Here's the bunch of BS.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, yeah.
Jane Esselstyn:
Brussels sprout section.
Rip Esselstyn:
And I'm like, okay, I want the Buffalo Brussels, because I want a little heat. And then you've got the Brussels Sprout Tats.
Jane Esselstyn:
Tats.
Rip Esselstyn:
And then you've got Sweet and Savory Brussels. I mean, all three of those just look incredible. Can you tell me about the Buffalo and what makes it Buffalo?
Jane Esselstyn:
Just the heat. The nutritional yeast is kind of like, it helps give it a little bit of an essence on it. Like it gives it a presence on top of the Brussels sprouts, but you definitely have to have hot sauce and some balsamic vinegar going with it and just baking it on. It's just a delicious balance. Because the nutritional yeast kind of cools the heat, but it carries it really well.
Rip Esselstyn:
And then you're doing all these on parchment paper, correct?
Jane Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
And then you cut them in half. Do you put it like the flat side down, typically?
Jane Esselstyn:
I'm not fussy about that.
Rip Esselstyn:
You're not fussy?
Jane Esselstyn:
Can't be. Can't be bothered.
Rip Esselstyn:
All right.
Jane Esselstyn:
I learned from the master herself.
Rip Esselstyn:
I am fussy when I do my Brussels sprouts. All right. Let me tell you, this Roasted Cauliflower and Broccoli Bites, it caught my eye because I, as you know, I was on duty for dinner last night. I did roasted cauliflower and it turned out-
Ann Esselstyn:
Good.
Rip Esselstyn:
... good, but not amazing.
Jane Esselstyn:
I thought it was close.
Rip Esselstyn:
But I'm looking for amazing-
Jane Esselstyn:
This is amazing.
Rip Esselstyn:
... roasted cauliflower. And I mean, what makes this amazing?
Jane Esselstyn:
What makes it is just the wee bit of seasoning. If you over-season it, all you taste is seasoning because broccoli and cauliflower really are just like beautifully dressed water. So we have some tamari, but we water it down, because you cannot have too much salt. And then we have minced onion and granulated garlic, which have a little more of a presence than just garlic powder, onion powder. It's fine if you only have those, but the minced onion, little chunks of onion. And then when you cook them, it smells much different. And then just add some seeds. We have black sesame seeds, which really have a wonderful, visual flavor to it, almost. And some poppy seeds and then there you go. The nutritional yeast at the end on top, not sort of all throughout, but just cha cha on top.
Rip Esselstyn:
Now this, Cauliflower Fritters. I've obviously got cauliflower on my brain right now. But Cauliflower Fritters, they look like they're deep fried.
Jane Esselstyn:
Don't they?
Rip Esselstyn:
Tell me they're not.
Jane Esselstyn:
No, they're not. Gosh.
Ann Esselstyn:
Rip.
Jane Esselstyn:
No. I have a great friend who's from India and she is plant-based and she just said, "You know what? I've really had an amazing time making authentic Indian food, plant strong." And my mom and I, this is again during COVID, we were like, "We need a tutorial." She hosted us in her garage with the door open. It was probably 28 degrees out in Cleveland. And we sat there eating herb dal and garam masala and all different kinds of naan bread. We learned so much from her.
She took us to the Indian grocery store and we learned about finger peppers and different kinds of garam masala, and on and on and on and on. And we will never even tap into the depth of Indian cooking. But these Cauliflower Fritters, we had the appropriate seasonings, which is worth the trip to the Indian grocery store to get them, for the fritters.
Rip Esselstyn:
So, this. Barbecue Pulled... What's it called? Barbecue-
Ann Esselstyn:
Portobello.
Jane Esselstyn:
Barbecued Pulled Portobello Sliders and Green Goddess Sauce.
Rip Esselstyn:
I just saw that and I'm like, "I need that." And it looks like they're on different wedges of polenta.
Jane Esselstyn:
Rounds.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Polenta rounds.
Jane Esselstyn:
So you get a chub of polenta.
Rip Esselstyn:
Is that butter lettuce?
Jane Esselstyn:
It's spinach or butter, whatever green you want. And then the barbecued pulled portobellos are so fun. You just have portobello mushrooms and you take the stems and you literally pull them apart so it looks like the strings of pulled pork kind of stuff and put in a little liquid smoke and cook so the smokey flavor's in them, and then some barbecue sauce at the end just to coat them. Cha cha cha.
Rip Esselstyn:
I'm going to move on from appetizers to Crackers, Quick Breads and other Fillers. Talk to me about Beer Bread.
Jane Esselstyn:
That's Mommy's favorite.
Ann Esselstyn:
Such fun.
Jane Esselstyn:
There it is. She knocked it out of the park.
Ann Esselstyn:
Well, after a talk, a woman came up to me and told me about this. And so I couldn't believe it because I love anything fast. I don't like a lot of ingredients. And so this is just literally you can use if you don't want it to be heavy. I mean, you could use oat flour, any flour, and beer and a little baking powder. It's so fun. I'll make it tonight. Well, tomorrow.
Rip Esselstyn:
Okay. I also noticed, and I thought it was very cute, was Jane and Ann's, Ann's Short Flax Biscuits and Jane's Tall Flax Biscuits. Here's a photo you can see. Jane is the tall ones and the thick ones, and Ann's the thin, smaller ones.
Ann Esselstyn:
And the thing about mine is that Jane's are all so delicious, but you use walnuts in them.
Jane Esselstyn:
Right. So one's Plant-Perfect and one's Plant-Strong.
Ann Esselstyn:
And so I said, "Jane, you don't have to have walnuts in them." And so I made mine without walnuts-
Jane Esselstyn:
And all of our recipe testers loved hers more than mine.
Rip Esselstyn:
Wow.
Ann Esselstyn:
So I got my Short Flax Biscuits in the book.
Jane Esselstyn:
Aye, laddie, and we also have some soda bread. Laddie.
Rip Esselstyn:
This is the soda bread.
Ann Esselstyn:
Aye, we do. It's Clava Cairn. Clava Cairn Soda Bread. Did you see it? You cut it open at the top. You put a cross on top so the fairies can get out.
Rip Esselstyn:
There it is.
Jane Esselstyn:
Clava Cairn. I'm obsessed with Scotland and we went to the Clava cairns, which are these unbelievable-
Ann Esselstyn:
Seed and Millet Crackers.
Jane Esselstyn:
Anyway, this is so fun. This soda bread, it's delicious. It always works. It's foolproof. It's kind of like the Beer Bread. Anyway.
Rip Esselstyn:
And then these Seed and Millet Crackers, I know you've made them, I've had them. Unfortunately, you usually can't eat just one.
Ann Esselstyn:
I can't.
Jane Esselstyn:
They're like M&Ms.
Ann Esselstyn:
I can't have them in the house.
Jane Esselstyn:
I'm like a wood chipper.
Rip Esselstyn:
And they're not Plant-Perfect, are they?
Ann Esselstyn:
Oh yeah. Oh, yeah. No, they're Plant-Strong. I mean, they are seeds.
Jane Esselstyn:
I think there's just some seeds. There's some flour.
Rip Esselstyn:
I see you say heart disease-friendly, actually.
Jane Esselstyn:
Yeah. There's there's some sunflower seeds in there.
Ann Esselstyn:
It's all seeds, but it's just so good.
Jane Esselstyn:
Chickpea flour. It's good.
Rip Esselstyn:
All right. We're making-
Ann Esselstyn:
We're getting close to desserts. We're getting close to deserts.
Rip Esselstyn:
I know we're getting close to desserts, which is why-
Ann Esselstyn:
No, we have to get to the main meal first.
Rip Esselstyn:
BYOB. What's that stand for?
Jane Esselstyn:
Build Your Own Bowl.
Rip Esselstyn:
Which is something that I think we all would agree this lifestyle, if you want it to be sustainable and easy, whether it's the open-faced sandwiches, whether it's the soups, whether it's-
Ann Esselstyn:
Oats for breakfast.
Rip Esselstyn:
... learning how to build your own bowl. But look at this, look at this and look at that studly arm right there.
Jane Esselstyn:
It's the only male thing in this book, my husband's arm, because he cooks all these amazing foods better than all of us.
Rip Esselstyn:
Build Your Own Bowl, Handheld Meals and Dinner Feasts. Talk to me about... What's that?
Jane Esselstyn:
The word pelvis means basin or bowl. Symbolically, this is more womanly and more powerful. What is more womanly and more powerful than the pelvis? What it creates, what it holds, family, life, pleasure, vitality. Build Your Own Bowl, beautifully.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, you've got, I don't know. How many different bowls do you have in here? Probably nine or 10. You can see how gorgeous they all are.
Jane Esselstyn:
You missed the front.
Rip Esselstyn:
Oh.
Jane Esselstyn:
There you go.
Rip Esselstyn:
And it's also the front. Yes.
Jane Esselstyn:
Ish.
Rip Esselstyn:
And what a gorgeous blue.
Jane Esselstyn:
Don't you love it?
Rip Esselstyn:
No, it's like it is the most beautiful sky blue ever. We have a great uncle and aunt and we call this Little blue.
Jane Esselstyn:
Little blue, with a capital L.
Ann Esselstyn:
Yes.
Rip Esselstyn:
All right. So let's move on to... Well, I love your twice-baked potatoes.
Jane Esselstyn:
Oh, open-face twice-baked potato.
Ann Esselstyn:
And you've got the trick. The trick-
Rip Esselstyn:
What is the trick?
Ann Esselstyn:
The trick to them is I like to use the Japanese sweet potatoes, along with any other-
Jane Esselstyn:
Like Yukon Gold.
Ann Esselstyn:
... potato, but Yukon Gold are the best. So Yukon Gold and Japanese sweet potatoes, combined with nutritional yeast. They're awesome. And then I put in some kale.
Jane Esselstyn:
When our kids are home from college, sometimes they say, "We're going to uncle Essy's house he's going to make those open-face potatoes." I love how they call them open face, because they don't know they're twice baked.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. And then you've also got Creamy Stuffed Sweet Potatoes.
Ann Esselstyn:
Oh, they're good, too. Really good.
Rip Esselstyn:
Tell me something about-
Ann Esselstyn:
Nutritional yeast makes a difference in them.
Rip Esselstyn:
There's something about twice-baked potatoes and you stir it up. It's like, I don't know, it makes it a very pleasurable, easy eating experience.
Ann Esselstyn:
And something that's so important is the power point of all potatoes is in the skin and so many people don't eat the skin of sweet potatoes and these sweet potatoes in here. If you recook them enough, the skin is to be absolutely fought over it.
Jane Esselstyn:
We always say, eat the hide.
Rip Esselstyn:
Talk to me about Crispy Chicken Nuggets.
Jane Esselstyn:
Chicken Nuggets.
Rip Esselstyn:
Because this, I look at these and I want dip them in-
Jane Esselstyn:
Ketchup.
Ann Esselstyn:
By the way, it's not chicken. It's check, C-H-E-C-K-I-N.
Jane Esselstyn:
Checkin' you out. Because people are going to be checking out what you're eating because these Checkin Nuggets are so delicious.
Rip Esselstyn:
What's the base?
Jane Esselstyn:
It's chickpeas. Look, chickpeas and aquafaba and then some spices and oats. It's just really easy and fun. I think you guys should make them with your kids.
Rip Esselstyn:
Okay.
Jane Esselstyn:
You're going to love them.
Rip Esselstyn:
I like it. You have several burgers in here. Do you have a favorite?
Jane Esselstyn:
Well, you know what, they're their neck and neck. Mommy has a great burger in here, Burger in a Flash.
Ann Esselstyn:
Bean Burgers in a Flash because I'm all for whatever is really quick.
Jane Esselstyn:
But I really love the Woman Warrior Burger because this is a tried and true burger. Actually, the sort of the origin story of our love with burger started with Jeff Novick. He's the master and taught us all so much about burgers. And then we went on to change the recipe a bazillion different ways. And we now have this Woman Warrior Burger that we love. It's made it to all the Engine 2 Plant-Strong immersions. It's a favorite. It's an easy winner.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. It's a brilliant base for any burgers. What about this? Chickpea Masala. Maybe you mentioned that.
Jane Esselstyn:
Oh, chole. Yeah. Yeah. My friend, Coiyan, who was teaching us all about this, chickpea masala, or it's called chola. She just has mastered this and it's so beautifully done. And the key is these green, they're finger peppers. They're small. And the right garam masala. Brian's Bowls. Oh yum, yum, yum.
Rip Esselstyn:
All right. We're moving on now. All right. We're moving on. We're getting towards dessert here. So Dreamy, Daring and Delicious Desserts. I've got a list here, but if there's anything that you want to add to it. Talk to me first about Peanut Butter Gelato, because, oh my gosh. Well I agree. I agree. I agree. And I actually have this on my list and I wanted to talk about it because it is in every one of my books, or a version of it. This is a sweet potato, and you're calling this Sweet Potato and Cashew Ricotta Lasagna. This is piled up like the Leaning Tower of Pisa. Look at that. Is that just brilliant? I want to have that for dinner tonight.
Jane Esselstyn:
It's my husband's-
Rip Esselstyn:
Is that a labor of love?
Jane Esselstyn:
It's such a labor of love. Brian makes this and it's just so interesting. He takes all the vegetables and the cashew ricotta, or if you want to do it with tofu or a cannellini bean, to make it more heart friendly, he just puts it all together so the ricotta and veggies are all one layer and then you use multiple layers of that amongst all the sauce and noodles. And that's the Twice-Bake Potatoes Open-Face.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. So let's-
Ann Esselstyn:
Rip, if you want pie, these are those.
Rip Esselstyn:
I know.
Ann Esselstyn:
The Creamy Stuffed Sweet Potatoes. They are just so good.
Jane Esselstyn:
Lollipop, lollipop.
Rip Esselstyn:
I know.
Jane Esselstyn:
Oh, so good.
Rip Esselstyn:
So talk to me about Peanut Butter Gelato and I'm going to find the photo.
Jane Esselstyn:
Oh, this gelato. We had it at Plant-Stock last year. I was testing it on these guys and it is so... We have always made silken tofu-based puddings, frostings, mousses, and we just took it a step further and sort of pulled some of the water out with extra dish towels and stuff, and then added some nut butter. So this is not a heart disease-friendly dessert, but added some nut butter, blurred it all up. It freezes beautifully. You can just scoop it out with an ice cream scoop. It's so good. And Brian... Rip, not Brian. Rip, look at this. I mean, Brian, rip Brian rip, look at this. Can't you just hear that?
Rip Esselstyn:
And peanut butter on anything, I'm like-
Jane Esselstyn:
And you add cocoa to it and you've got the chocolate and if you use almond butter, it doesn't have that peanut butter flavor behind it. But if you want the peanut butter chocolate, go for it.
Rip Esselstyn:
Do you have a favorite brownie in here?
Jane Esselstyn:
Oh my God.
Rip Esselstyn:
I'm caught by the Out of Sight Brownies, but I mean-
Ann Esselstyn:
Okay. Okay. Let me just... Rip, Rip. Rip? You listening to me? Rip, Rip. Rip?
Rip Esselstyn:
Yes.
Ann Esselstyn:
During COVID, we were writing this book and my husband and I were watching a lot of TV at that COVID time. So at night we would be sitting there watching TV, maybe 8:00 or 9:00 and the door would rattle and I would begin to salivate. I mean, I just was salivating because I knew that Jane was coming with another version of her brownies for us to try. And finally-
Rip Esselstyn:
There's the Out of Sight.
Ann Esselstyn:
... it took how many tries, Jane?
Jane Esselstyn:
12.
Ann Esselstyn:
12 tries on one.
Jane Esselstyn:
We had three brownies we were testing and we did about 12 times each. So we had months of-
Ann Esselstyn:
And finally, my Essy said, "This one is out of sight."
Jane Esselstyn:
That's what we called it Out of Sight.
Rip Esselstyn:
Out of Sight. What about this Amaretto Cherry Chocolate Hazelnut Scones?
Jane Esselstyn:
Yeah. This, we have scones in the Engine 2 Cookbook, which we love, then there's kind of a basic like, "Hey, make these scones and add some chocolate chips or maybe add some raisins or whatever you want." But here we just went like a whole new level with it and added Amaretto, which gives it a flavor that, it's reminiscent. And we added toasted walnuts and chocolate chips and cherries.
Rip Esselstyn:
The more things, the better.
Jane Esselstyn:
Yeah. The more items we have, the better. We've learned that. And my mom is awful. I bring them over and she picks all the pecans out of them, or the hazel nuts. And then she just picks at them, so you have this carcass of a scone. It's still very good, but you're very funny about that.
Rip Esselstyn:
I need a little stretch here. Can somebody talk about this couch and the history of it and what makes it so special?
Ann Esselstyn:
Well, this is a very deep couch. In fact, two people can easily sleep on it.
Rip Esselstyn:
I know, look at this. I mean-
Ann Esselstyn:
When my husband's family's house was getting-
Jane Esselstyn:
Divvied up.
Ann Esselstyn:
... divvied up, everybody sat in a room and we had photos of every article. So we went around by age and so he was second in his family and Sally, I don't remember what she chose. He chose the brown couch. That was his first choice.
Jane Esselstyn:
Good move, Daddy.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. All right. Let's talk now, well, I think we need to talk about the Lemon Pie Squares.
Ann Esselstyn:
Oh my God, we've got to make these, Jane. You will not believe what the base is of the lemon-
Jane Esselstyn:
Well, Lemon Pie Squares, Rip, there's the crust, if you will, of-
Rip Esselstyn:
Is it Rip's Big bowl?
Jane Esselstyn:
No, no. No, no, no. The Lemon Pie Squares, the base of this is raisin and pecans, lightly toasted, so that it's really a flavorful base. And then the top-
Ann Esselstyn:
Wait, Jane. Stop. Stop before you go beyond the crust, because we also have to experiment with your cereal as the crust for this, sometime.
Jane Esselstyn:
I think that Amy just showed how it can be done with-
Ann Esselstyn:
With just your crust.
Jane Esselstyn:
So the crust here is delicious and then the topping is, like I said earlier about all this silken firm tofus that we make. We've got eight versions in here. We've got like lemon, lime, blackberry, blueberry red... We got a million of them. But this is the lemon as the topping. I know you guys can't see what we're talking about. Here, I'm just going to do-
Ann Esselstyn:
Lemon mousse.
Jane Esselstyn:
This is the crust and the topping and then the lemon, the filling. So you've had a lemon square, maybe, or you've seen them in your life. I was just desperate to figure out how to make that sort of gelatinous. So what do you know what we used?
Rip Esselstyn:
You used-
Ann Esselstyn:
Such a healthy ingredient.
Rip Esselstyn:
You used-
Ann Esselstyn:
Beginning-of-the-day ingredient.
Rip Esselstyn:
Oats?
Jane Esselstyn:
Yes. Everyone's like, "Oh, did you use like agar?" And I'm like, "No, no."
Rip Esselstyn:
Aquafaba?
Jane Esselstyn:
No aquafaba. We have, in the breakfast section, we didn't talk about it, but we have a lemon oatmeal. It had some lemon in it, a little maple syrup in it and some zest in it. So I just amped up our lemon oatmeal with more zest, more juice, more syrup. And then I put it in the fridge, and you know how when you refrigerate oatmeal, it becomes just like... and it sets and it's sliceable. Like in Scotland, they take their oats and they put them in the drawer, and then in the morning they just cut a section and they put it in sport it and then they hike over the loch loman. Anyway, the lemon oats, I spread on top of the crust, refrigerate, and then you put the other topping on and you have these amazing lemon squares, and they're teenager approved.
Rip Esselstyn:
We had a version of these the other day. Gingered Minty Melon Balls and Orange Juice. I just think this is, if you're looking for a very clean, hot summer day dessert, you can't go-
Jane Esselstyn:
You cannot go wrong.
Rip Esselstyn:
And it's so easy.
Ann Esselstyn:
And it's so easy. And the three things that I think are magic, and where you can do it with watermelon, with anything, a combination of every kind of fruit, is add some fresh squeezed orange juice, fresh mint, and a little lime. Those three things.
Jane Esselstyn:
You can't believe how well it amps it up.
Ann Esselstyn:
It's so delicious.
Rip Esselstyn:
And you've also got cookies in here.
Jane Esselstyn:
Oh, Such Fun Cookies. Pepparkakor. If you've heard of pepparkakor, it's a Swedish cookie and you put it in your hand. Here's a pepparkakor, but the pepparkakor, anyway, you put it in your hand and when you tap it, if it divides into three parts, your wish comes true. It took us so many tries to get that photo when we both had the three parts.
Ann Esselstyn:
There's a cookie that I just absolutely love in here, are your Vanilla Wafers.
Rip Esselstyn:
Sounds like something out of Squid Games. That may have gone over your head.
Ann Esselstyn:
No, I-
Rip Esselstyn:
But those of you that have seen it, you know what I'm talking about.
Jane Esselstyn:
I have seen Squid Games. That would be a scary one, because you'd be like...
Rip Esselstyn:
Three pieces, otherwise curtains for you. All right, so cookies. What is this? Because I want that.
Jane Esselstyn:
Yeah. Oh, that's called our Xander Tart. There's a Linzer Torte, these famous sort of European things. And the Xander Tart, a friend of ours name Xander was driving through our house on his way during COVID to go west and he tested it and he was like, "This is really good." But I didn't put the beautiful raspberries in the tofu to make it. It was kind of this gray tofu and he's like, "It doesn't look so good, but it tastes amazing." And I was like, "Okay, I'm going to stick with it." But as soon as we put the fruit into the tofu mix, it was next level so, approved.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, thank you everybody for letting us go through this labor of love that Jane and Ann have put together.
Jane Esselstyn:
That was an exhaustive tour. If you're still with us, I'm so impressed with you.
Ann Esselstyn:
Well, I am impressed with Rip and your reading through this book and getting all this.
Rip Esselstyn:
Listen, I am smitten with it.
Ann Esselstyn:
Because you didn't have very much time because-
Jane Esselstyn:
We just got it.
Ann Esselstyn:
We just got it.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Ann, let me ask you this, and then I'm going to ask you, Jane. What are you most excited for right now? Going forward, 2022, what are you most excited about? And if you need time to think I could go to Jane.
Ann Esselstyn:
No. I am most excited that somehow our country can come together and agree on the things that are right for human beings, and one of them is plant-based nutrition.
Rip Esselstyn:
You're being an adorable bully again. Okay.
Ann Esselstyn:
Eat plant-based, everyone.
Rip Esselstyn:
How about you, Jane?
Jane Esselstyn:
I'm so excited about, it's hard to get beyond the first thing on my mind is always my three kids. So I'm excited about what they're doing this summer and what's happening with them. But if I can get beyond that and think about what I'm excited about, I'm excited about our book coming out on August 23rd, 2022. I mean, for me, it's sort of special. And I'm not trying to disclude my dad, who's the foundation of it all, or my brothers, especially Rip, who's launched me into this space by including me on the first cookbook, but I'm so excited to have done this with my mother.
Because I mean, it's like the coolest thing you could do, I think. Because eating, it's a non-optional. If you can cook, you are so free. If you can make your own food, you are so empowered. And I love that this is a multi-generational gift that we've been given, like his eight-year-old made dinner for all of us the other night.
Ann Esselstyn:
And, by the way, Rip and Jill were lying down on the bed upstairs while hope was cutting cucumbers, mango-
Jane Esselstyn:
Red peppers.
Ann Esselstyn:
Cucumbers, red peppers, all beautifully cut so we could all have her-
Jane Esselstyn:
Spring rolls.
Ann Esselstyn:
Spring rolls.
Jane Esselstyn:
So I'm excited about having this not just be... Like right now, it's multi-generational, three generations, I'm excited to see how this can become four generations and just get more infectious and larger and help so many people, going forward.
Ann Esselstyn:
I feel that the biggest gift, which my husband originated, the biggest gift that we have passed on to our four children, and then to our 10 grandchildren and they're all children's spouses, is plant-based eating and I feel that it is the gift that we hope we can pass on to everybody out there.
Rip Esselstyn:
It's the gift that keeps on giving, right?
Jane Esselstyn:
Cheers.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. I am excited about so many things, but I am excited about seeing you guys in Cleveland at the Knob, not only for Labor Day, but after that for Plant-Stock, the 11th-
Jane Esselstyn:
We're cooking out of this.
Rip Esselstyn:
... and digging into recipes from this book with you guys. So, Ann, thank you for everything.
Ann Esselstyn:
Rip.
Rip Esselstyn:
Jane. You guys, thanks for being on the Plant-Strong Podcast again.
Jane Esselstyn:
Oh, thank you.
Ann Esselstyn:
And Rip, we are going to use some of your broths.
Rip Esselstyn:
Okay. All right. Bye everybody. Peace. Engine 2.
All:
Keep it Plant-Strong.
Ann Esselstyn:
Woo.
Jane Esselstyn:
Thank you.
Rip Esselstyn:
And Be A-
Women:
... Plant-Based Woman Warrior: Live Fierce, Stay Bold, Eat Delicious.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. I'll be sure to put a link to order this book along with their zany, wonderful YouTube channel, in the show notes at plantsrongpodcast.com. Thanks so much, as always, for bringing my family along with you on your plant-based journey, and from the entire Esselstyn family to yours, always keep it Plant-Strong.
The PLANTSTRONG Podcast team includes Carrie Barrett, Laurie Kortowich, Ami Mackey, Patrick Gavin, and Wade Clark. This season is dedicated to all of those courageous true seekers, who weren't afraid to look through the lens with clear vision and hold firm to a higher truth. Most notably, my parents, Dr. Caldwell B. Esselstyn Jr, and Ann Crile Esselstyn. Thanks for listening.
