#229: Robert Band Shares Lessons From His Personal Plantstrong Playbook
At age 49, Rip's guest, Robert Band, had a stent because he had 95% blockage in his carotid. Surgery "fixed" him, but at age 60, he discovered that the blockage was returning. Four years ago, through the recommendation of a Lifestyle Medicine physician, he found the work of the Esselstyn family, including PLANTSTRONG.
Today, thanks to a radical change in his diet and lifestyle, he now has 0% blockage. In this live session with Rip, we'll learn a thing or two from Robert's personal "Plantstrong Playbook." (and why he loves salsa dancing)
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I'm Rip Esselstyn, and you're listening to the PLANTSTRONG Podcast.
I hope you all had a merry, merry Christmas.
At PLANTSTRONG, we cannot wait to bring you some more spectacular episodes of the PLANTSTRONG Podcast with even more PLANTSTRONG education and inspiration on some of your most requested topics starting Thursday, January 4th.
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Now, while we're putting the final touches on some of these episodes for next year, we're also taking a little breather to spend time with our loved ones.
I want you to enjoy this episode with a PLANTSTRONG listener, Robert Band, that we did live earlier this year that I know you're going to really, really eat up.
At the age of 49, Robert had a stent because he had 95% blockage in his carotid artery.
That's the artery that runs along your neck up to your brain.
[2:01] Surgery, quote unquote, fixed him. But at the age of 60, he discovered that the blockage was returning.
And four years ago, he found the work of my father and PLANTSTRONG.
And today, thanks to a profound change in his diet and lifestyle, he has zero percent blockage.
You'll definitely learn a thing or two from Robert's PLANTSTRONG playbook.
Now, just so you know, we go live almost every Friday on Facebook and YouTube for even more fun fun, and educational content to help you on your journeys.
Visit the show notes for all of the links to follow us on your favorite social platform.
Now, let's welcome Robert Band.
Introducing special guest Robert Band
[2:53] We got a super special guest here today. His name is Robert Band.
Robert, say hi to everybody.
Hello, PLANTSTRONG friends. Awesome, awesome. Look at that awesome smile.
And, you know, while people are coming in, Robert, what I'd like for everybody to do is let us know in the comments section, where you're from, and I'd like to know as well, how many pieces of fruit have you had to eat so far today?
So where are you from and how many pieces of fruit?
Robert, where are you from and how many pieces of fruit have you had today?
All right. I'm a native Miamian, lived there 60 years, transplanted to Fort Collins, Colorado. So that's where I am now.
[3:44] And I had oatmeal with frozen berries and a dash of peanut butter, some granola, flax, chia and hemp seeds and a little bit of milk. That was my fruit so far.
OK, so you have not had lunch yet. No.
Got it. Got it. And what kind of frozen berries were they? Were they like a triple berry blend or what are we talking about?
Yep. They're a bag from my favorite grocery. And it's just triple berries. No strawberries.
Right. So you got blueberry, blackberry, raspberry.
Doesn't get much better than that. That's a really solid blend right there. Yeah.
For sure. I got some right in the freezer here in my office.
So I'm just looking here at some of the comments.
And oh, we got three, four pieces of fruit.
Roger Grinvick is three. Three, wait, one apple, a bunch of grapes, Connie, let's see, Roger. Yeah, three apples, two bananas.
I like it. I like it. So I've already had five pieces of fruit, but you know what?
I'm practically a fruititarian when you get down to it.
But you guys, let me tell you a little bit why we got Robert Band here joining us today.
[5:05] So, you know, a couple of weeks ago we had Trucker Steve. Steve, Robert, did you happen to meet trucker Steve or yes, I heard it. I listened.
Okay. So for those of you that don't know trucker Steve, you know, he's kind of a, uh, been an avid, um, listener of our Facebook lives and following the whole plantstrong protocol. And, um, We just happened to hear, and I think it was in the comment section, that this Trucker Steve dude that drives an 18-wheeler and has been following us, lost 170 pounds in about a year and a half following this whole food, plant-based lifestyle where we're focusing on foods that are calorie light, nutrient rich.
You guys know the story, loaded with fiber, water, all that great stuff.
Robert's remarkable transformation story and the power of plant-based lifestyle
[5:53] And uh and i heard recently from from Robert here who has another really kind of remarkable uh transformation story and i say remarkable it's not really remarkable what's remarkable is that more people don't know and aren't following this to basically alleviate uh, all their ailments when it comes to you know these chronic western diseases but this is why I've invited Robert on today because Robert, you've done something that's pretty extraordinary.
And so I want to dive into that and we're not going to give away what exactly it is that you've done.
[6:34] But let's just, let's just start at the top. So you grew up, tell me again, where did you grow up? What part of the country? Miami.
Miami. Brothers, sisters, tell me a little bit about your family? Yeah.
[6:50] Mom, dad, sister, one year older than I and me. Got it.
And did you guys eat in a particular way or fashion?
Yeah, we were, you know, typical Americans. We had steak on Sunday night and, you know, chicken and sometimes eggs for dinner.
And, you know, God, I ate so many cheese sandwiches.
I got up from the dinner table and I was still hungry and I just put two two slices of American cheese between bread.
I had thousands of those in my childhood, not to mention PB and J. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Okay. And then your parents, how was their health while you were growing up?
It was good until my dad was a smoker, so he died at 56 from emphysema.
My mother was in good health.
Okay. And is she still alive today? day? She's not, but only because she was hit by a drunk driver driving.
And so she died at around 70 or 71.
Yeah. But I do have cardiovascular disease on the grandparents, her mother and my dad's father both had, they both died of heart disease. Okay.
And so walk me through like, so So when did you realize that something wasn't quite right with yourself?
Robert's experience with chest pain and diagnosis of cardiovascular disease
[8:19] So in the summer of 2007, right after dinner, I had a pain right here, a 15 second vague, wasn't a stabbing pain.
It was like a constriction and vague.
So it went away. I said, that was weird. And I let it go.
And then at the time in the gym, I was walking fast on the treadmill.
That was part of my cardio.
And as I got into that, this pain came back and then it it would get bad enough over 10 or 15 minutes, I had to stop.
But I was really occupied at the time and I didn't take action right away.
Six months after the initial pain, I was laying in bed.
It was the beginning of UFC fighting and it was 11 o'clock and I was in bed watching that and I was like spellbound that these guys were going to kill each other.
And so I had the pain, The adrenaline got going and I had that pain.
I said, okay, I'm going tomorrow to the doctor.
So I went to the primary. He sent me the next day for a stress test.
They did the stress test. They put me in a waiting room while they read the film.
[9:33] And they came with a wheelchair, two doctors, mine and another one.
And they said, we're taking you to the cath lab. And I was 6'1", 184, and I ate healthier than most people I knew.
And I'm like, you're telling me I have cardiovascular disease?
[9:51] And I couldn't believe it. And how old are you at this point?
I was 49. It was 95% blocked, the ramus artery.
The ramus artery. So for those of us that don't know the ramus artery, where is that?
[10:07] Uh it's it's i think it's also known as circumflex i really don't know yeah yeah so so but it's in it's in the heart okay definitely in the heart right right right okay okay uh let me just backtrack for a sec so you say you kept getting this pain like and you keep pointing to your throat area right and so like like what kind of a pain is it is it a sharp sharp stabbing pain or a dull radiation what is it no it was it was either like i thought to myself this is either reflux or or asthma although i don't have asthma anymore i did as a kid uh or or cardio something but it it wasn't stabbing and shooting it was more constriction okay but it was it was definitely noticeable.
All right. So they wheel you down to the, uh, the cath lab.
You get, they got 95% blockage in, um, this particular artery.
And then what do they, what do they tell you?
[11:09] Well, they both looked white, like, how are you still alive?
Like, I'll never forget their look. But they said, you know, we're taking you for a stint.
And when I got out, they the doctor said, well, you should eat meat twice a week, not more.
And like very skeletal details about what I should eat.
And then he recommended a nutritionist who I had come to my home and say, this got to go. And so at that time, at age 49, I didn't go plant based.
I just eliminated, you know, cookies and ice cream and just junk.
And then she took me to the grocery store and showed me what was good.
And so that's how I ate for the next 10 years. All right.
And when they inform you at the cath lab, when the doctors turned white and they're like, how are you alive, that you should have a stent, did you put up any kind of an argument? Or do you like just go, OK, let's let's do it.
I mean, I had no I.
Well, first of all, they said we're taking right now. So you have a 95 percent blocked artery.
So I'd never heard of plant-based. I wasn't vegan.
I didn't know this was 2007.
[12:22] So, yeah. Yeah. So I just went along with it. Got it.
And after you had the stent put in and then over the next 10 plus years of eating somewhat healthier, did you have any more pain here or did that go away?
No, I never had any other pain. Okay, got it.
And so you said you were eating this way, kind of, you know, a little healthier for the next 10 years.
And then what happened? Did you run into somebody? buddy?
Yes. So, well, somewhere around, okay, let's go age.
49, I had the stent. 57, I was, let's say around 57, 58, I had the carotids scanned, ultrasounded.
And one of them was 50% blocked.
Discovering the Book that Changed His Life
[13:11] Okay. So they said, well, we're just going to watch it. And then right after that, My sister was with a friend who is a former chief of diagnostic imaging at Kaiser Permanente.
He had a heart attack at 58, and he knew I had a stent.
And he said to her, your brother should read this book, Prevent a Reverse Heart Disease.
So she bought it for me. And I read it.
It made so much sense to me. I'm like, I'm in. I'm in.
Especially, it was somewhere around page 80, I remember, the endothelium discussion.
Yeah. And I'm like, okay, that's it. Because I wasn't eating a lot.
The chicken was gross. It's rubbery. It's fat. It's tough.
And so I just, I was ready.
And plus, by then, the second carotid was 50% blocked. So I had two.
And I'm like, all right, I got to do something. So I just jumped in.
And that was four and a half years ago. Okay.
So can I just kind of like talk about maybe your mentality here?
So you had the stent at 49, you've been eating, you know, okay.
And then about eight, nine, 10 years later, you realize you've got like 50% blockage in both your, your carotid arteries.
[14:35] Your sister says, Hey, this, you know, chief imaging guy from Kaiser Permanente, you know, recommends that you read this book.
What, so what about that recommendation gave you an open mind to actually pick up the book and read it?
Was it because you really valued, valued your sister's opinion or did you know about this radiologist or what was it?
[15:01] Uh, well, I, I knew of him and I I regarded him highly and I just felt like it was time. I don't know. It just it just made sense.
So I said, OK, you bought me the book. I'll read it. And I read it quickly and then it made so much sense.
I'm like, I believe this is the truth.
And it wasn't a hard sell. It just it just fell into place. Okay.
And let me say for those that have never read Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease, as you just said, Robert, it is an incredibly easy read, right?
It's like maybe 110, 120 pages, nice, easy read, relatively short chapters.
And then you've got the recipe section that follows that.
And that book came out in 2007, really right about the same time that you had that first stent put in. Right. Yeah. Yeah.
All right. So any, any other, any other like.
[16:06] Thing from reading my father's book that kind of like hit you in the face?
Like, so you mentioned the endothelial cells and the nitric oxide. Anything else?
The whole American diet. And oh, by the way, so Neil Cooper, who is the radiologist who gave me the book, he also gave me books to read, like Walking with Petey.
He gave me Forks Over Knives and what the health. And I watched all that.
And so between all of that and learning about the health aspect, the animal treatment and the planet aspects, it was just a no brainer and I did it.
And so there, you know, I found in his book, you know, the recipes looked intriguing to me, the American diet, following the money and all the studies that are put out by the avocado and milk, you know, lobbies.
And it just it's like, yeah, this is what's going on. Yeah. Yeah.
[17:12] What about your wife? Are you still married or I have no idea. So I'm divorced.
All right. So are you are you single right now? Yes. OK, so.
All right. So that makes it kind of relatively like a slam dunk.
You don't have to deal with a partner with that. So, okay.
Gotcha. Yeah. And I'm an empty nester. So kids are in different places.
So it's me. Right. Right.
Family and their thoughts on plant-based lifestyle
[17:38] So you've got some daughters, right? I have a son and a daughter.
A son and a daughter. Got it. And are they on board or what do they think of what dad's doing? in?
Well, they're not on board yet.
I think they, one or both, think at some point they'll probably be plant-based, but they're 26 and 22.
So they're not there yet. Although my son said to me yesterday.
[18:05] You know, dad, I'm always surprised that, you know, I love your plant-based, your vegan cooking, like your lasagna. Send me the recipe for your lasagna.
And so like, When they come and I cook, they like it.
Well, and are you how do you make this work, this lifestyle in the kitchen?
Do you you consider yourself like a cook, a pretty good cook now? Or do you are you able to.
OK, fantastic. Yeah, no, I am. I first of all, I spent a lot of time in the last six months cooking.
And so I have a notebook which is divided by nationality, you know, cuisines. So there's Asian, Cajun, Italian breakfast, appetizers, salads, the whole thing.
And when I I go online generally and I look if I'm curious, I feel like Cajun.
I go vegan Cajun and up pop recipes.
I'm like, oh, jambalaya. I'll make that. Got it. Got it. And then what do you do when you find it like vegan, vegan jambalaya and it's got oils and cashews and stuff like that? do you then modify it?
[19:20] Well, I always cut the oil. So if it calls for a quarter cup, I never use that.
But I may do a little bit.
And the cashew cheese in lasagna, yes, I use that.
[19:36] And I kind of rationalize that I'm not eating a full sheet of lasagna at one time.
And it's a cup of cashews so it's broken up over many you know and and so you know eating i'm probably 85 percent or 90 percent plant-based no fat or very little fat and what i cook is is that way if i have people over i may cook non-vegan for them um but but i virtually cook with no oil right and And so something remarkable happened, if I'm not mistaken, with your carotid arteries.
Reversal of carotid artery blockage
[20:16] So you said you had 50% blockage in both the left and the right.
And then when did you last go in for an ultrasound to check the blockage?
That was a year and a half or two years ago.
But that was three years from the time that I started eating like your dad prescribed.
And I got the report and it said zero on both arteries.
So I sent it to my cousin, who's a radiologist. I go, am I reading this right?
So he goes, yeah. And I'm like, so he goes, you reversed it, dude.
[20:53] And so you may know, I don't know how that happens.
But what I'm kind of thinking is if there's plaque buildup, it's almost like feeding off incoming fat.
And if you deprive it of fat, then maybe it just dries up and the healing of the endothelium and the nitric oxide, maybe that washes it away.
I don't know how that happens, but it happens.
Well, I mean, yeah. Yeah. I mean, the beautiful thing is you're able to metabolize away those fatty lesions, the cholesterol deposits that the body can really kind of heal and start to reduce and diminish.
The thing that you cannot remove, and this is why it's really a good thing to me that you started when you did, is the older you get, the more you have the calcification of the arteries when you're eating the standard American diet.
And you cannot reverse the calcification. That's basically like stone or rock that's there in the arteries.
But if you're young enough, when you do this, before you have the calcification going on, you can absolutely reduce it.
But the other good news, and you probably know about this, Robert, is that even if you're 95 when you start this and you've let's say you've got, you know, calcification off the charts.
[22:14] The good news is you can still affect the innermost lining, the endothelial cells to start bumping up the production of nitric oxide.
And then that will then allow the your vessels to basically become youthful, more elasticized. They can now dilate.
And just a little bit of dilation will allow that much more blood flow to your brain, to your heart, down to your legs, wherever you need it.
[22:42] And so just doing this, you can you can cause your angina and other things that happen when you have blocked arteries to basically get better and go away.
So that's a great a great question, though, Robert, about how exactly does it happen? And, and, uh, yeah, the next time I have my dad on, I'll get him to describe it. Exactly. That's good.
Sharing favorite recipes and dealing with unsupportive partners
[23:06] So, Hey, we got, we got a couple, uh, a couple of questions here that are coming in from people.
Um, look at Kathy says this, this man has the greatest smile.
Well, well, yeah, he sure does. That's because he's reversed, uh, the blockage in his carotids.
Uh, you did, you did one or two, but Kim Clark wants to know, can you share a few of your favorite recipes? and where can we potentially find those?
Um, yeah. So can I share them on your Facebook?
Uh, absolutely. We can also, uh, yeah, we can do something where we, um, do something afterwards and we share them.
Um, or are you talking about right now?
Well, um, usually they're from sites, so I can share a link to them on some of the The favorites.
Yeah. All right. Got it.
So let me see what this is.
[24:03] I'm wanting to go plant-based vegan, but my husband said that he he does he does.
But when he's not here or he keeps coming home with foods that are not what I want to eat, but he makes me feel like he he bought it home because he was doing something nice.
I think what she's saying there is my husband wants to do this, but he comes home with stuff that's not plant-based vegan.
And then I got to deal with it. What would you say to somebody that's got a partner that's kind of making it a little difficult? Any advice?
[24:41] If I were me, I would cook the way.
So usually when I cook, it's either a pot or a sheet of something.
It's all bulk cooking. I'm never hardly ever making a one-off meal.
So that means I'll eat one sixth of it and then I'll freeze the five sixths.
And then I'm just pulling all week long out of the freezer.
And so I would have mine and she would have hers.
And if she wants to not go along, then I don't see any other solution to do your own thing.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like it. Um, you mentioned Lynn Prince says, uh, you mentioned a book walking with, but I missed the rest.
Walking with Petey is about a guy who is young, 400 pounds, couldn't get out of the house and had very bad cardiovascular disease.
And his doctor said, you need to go plant-based.
You need the, uh, and then somebody, I think his nutritionist recommended to get a dog. So he got a dog named Petey and he walked this dog, which got him out of the house, socializing other people. And it really got him.
So he, he ended up becoming, I think a triathlete or a marathoner.
Like he lost all that weight and he did it by eating this way.
Yeah. No, it's a great book. Walking with Petey. It is a great book.
I actually gave it an endorsement too.
[26:11] When it came out. Um, and, And it's incredible, too, sometimes what what like having a little bit of companionship can do for you, even like a dog and getting them out for a walk and the joy that that provides the dog and you.
And then it just kind of, you know, it built on itself. But it is a great, great story.
[26:34] You mentioned that this morning you had oatmeal with some fruit on top and some other some other things, chia seeds. I think you said hemp seeds.
Is that something you do consistently like every morning or do you switch it up your breakfast?
Breakfast choices and preferences
[26:51] I my breakfast is I there's three things I love. I love that.
And I love a breakfast casserole that I make, which has potatoes.
So it's a baking pan and it goes like frozen hash brown potatoes, no oil, just potatoes. And then on that goes, it could be onions, peppers, mushrooms, whatever.
And then there's in a blender blends up some cheesy sauce with nutritional yeast.
And maybe I don't remember.
But anyway, that sauce goes on to the top of the casserole. It bakes.
And then I've got, I don't know, five or six breakfasts out of that.
And then I love tofu scrambles, just being inventive, throwing in mushrooms or kale or or green spinach.
And I try and get my greens in there. So I kind of rotate those three around.
But I do try and start my the very first thing that I eat, I try to make it oatmeal.
Right. Because either you or one of your guests said that is the most cleansing thing to break the fast with. with.
And so I try to do that. Do you do an old fashioned oatmeal or you steel cut oats or what's your preference?
I do what you do. I do the large old fashioned.
Uh huh. Yep. Yep. That's good.
[28:19] Do you do the extra thick? I do. All right. All right.
Yeah. Yeah. Now what about what about about lunches.
Like, tell me a little bit about how you like to arrange your lunches and do you work from home or do you have to go to an office?
How does that work? Yeah, I work from home.
Uh, so again, it's like, okay, so pizza, I love making my own pizza.
So I need to buy your crust, but in the past I have used cauliflower and I'll just put some ralph's tomato sauce on it.
It does It does have some oil in it, but again, it's, you know, whatever. Um, uh.
[28:59] And then I'll just throw in olives, artichokes, onions, mushrooms, whatever, and then very little vegan cheese. I really don't even need the cheese.
I don't like the taste of it, really. And that may be one. But otherwise, it's leftovers.
Weight Loss and Active Lifestyle in Colorado
[29:18] Stuff that I pulled out of the freezer could be jambalaya, gumbo, polenta veggie bake, lasagna, ramen. I made a really delicious ramen a couple of weeks ago.
So I'm making stuff that I'm finding online all across cuisines, and I'm not suffering.
No, no. You said earlier that you're about 6'1", and back when you had your stent, I think you said you're about 185.
Has your weight fluctuated at all since you've been eating this way, or are you still about 185?
It has not fluctuated. I'm 174. So from the time I had the stent, I lost 10 pounds and I've been that weight before I went vegan and after. Nothing's changed.
Yeah. And are you active living in Colorado Springs? It seems like that's a pretty active community there.
Yeah. Fort Collins. Yeah, I'm very active.
So I work out with a trainer three days a week. In the intervening days, I bike.
So Peloton during the winter, my cruiser bike in the summer.
[30:29] I'm doing salsa dancing. And occasionally I go on a hike.
I'm not skiing and mountain biking because I grew up in Miami and I didn't learn that early enough.
Yeah. All right. So you're in Fort Collins, not Colorado Springs.
Got it. But salsa dancing.
So you're you're a salsa dancer and and and you're still single.
That's that's surprising to me.
[30:56] Well, that makes two of us. Wow.
Wow. I would say here's the truth about salsa dancing.
You could be George Clooney or the most dashing man on earth.
But they're there to dance with the best dancers so if you're not the best dancer right they're not interested i'm being a little tongue-in-cheek but it's for the most part it's about the dancing got it well how long you've been doing the salsa dancing.
[31:29] Well, I started in 07, and that was after I got divorced.
And then I did it thinking, wow, this is a great way to meet nice women.
And then I would meet somebody that I was interested in that wasn't a dancer, and they had no interest in dancing.
So then I'm like, well, maybe I should meet the right one first and then learn to dance.
So that hasn't panned out. And so now after a long sabbatical, I'm back into it.
All right. And it's high on my bucket list to be able to take any woman and show her, have her smile from beginning to end, enjoy the music and the dance in one song and not have to think about all the turns and the moves.
Well, I love partner dancing. And I think at some point I'd like to do what you're doing. and do it, do it consistently and get really good at it.
Yeah. It's a thrill if you can. Yeah. Yeah.
So tell me, I think I heard, and somebody's mentioning it here in the comments that you created a playbook that you give to people that want to know more about what you've done in the whole lifestyle.
[32:49] Right. So I use Evernote. It's a it's a note taking. It's kind of like Apple Notes.
And I took what Neil Cooper gave me at the very beginning, the books, the documentaries.
[33:04] And and then I have your podcast. I have some of the favorite recipe writers that like that I go to repeatedly.
Repeatedly um some of the things that are in my PLANTSTRONG playbook which is what i call it yeah uh came from your podcast like carnism oh yeah and some of that and so i'm just if somebody expresses any curiosity i go what's your cell phone number let me send you this playbook and then and then that's in then they have it and what they do with it so uh i i do that i don't push it on anybody, but I share it very willingly.
And some of the people, some of the people I dated have gone vegan.
[33:52] I've influenced a good number. Yeah.
I'm just wondering, you know, when I was a healthy eating ambassador for Whole Food Market stores, I would travel all across the country. and Fort Collins.
I'm trying to, is Fort Collins, do you feel a vegan friendly city?
It's a very healthy city.
We had this awesome vegan place when I moved here four years ago.
It went out of business during COVID, but you could find, I could go to a steakhouse and order order baked potato, asparagus, no oil, no butter, and be happy.
So you can find stuff throughout the restaurants here.
And we're an hour north of Denver, by the way.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. All right.
Yeah, my take when I was there is that it seemed kind of like a conservative city, but I could be wrong. No, it's very progressive.
Okay. Fort Collins, baby. Yeah, in fact, I want to, if I had a little more time, I'd like to make this the healthiest city in America.
And do that by getting the government behind having restaurants required to have some plant-based, low-fat food on their menu.
[35:21] So why do you say if you had more time, you'd try and make Fort Collins the healthiest city in America?
Well, I am connected to the right people here. So it's just, you know, like I know somebody who knows the mayor and he's super connected.
And I just got really busy work wise. And so I need to.
But but it is on my radar that I'd like to do that.
Right. Because, you know, I only know one restaurant in the country where if you go in and you say, do you have a vegan menu that they have a separate menu?
And I think either all restaurants should have that or it should be a part, a corner of their menu that's healthy.
Yep. Yep. And the funny thing is they'll make so much money because we love it. We go, we seek that. Yeah, we do. We do.
Medications for Heart Health
[36:16] Here's a question for you. After your stent, somebody wants to know if you're still on any medications like aspirin or statins.
Yeah. Yeah, I am. So I take Ecotrim, 81 milligrams every day.
And I'm on atorvastatin and losartan, which is atorvastatin for cholesterol, losartan for blood pressure.
I've asked my last 10 years of cardiologists, why do I need that?
And they said, it's basically, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
So the doctors are not willing, I would have to on my own, and just stop it and see if it changed in my blood and anything changed.
But I haven't decided to do that. I'm just listening to them.
[37:06] I got it. Well, if you want another opinion, what I would recommend is that you reach out to one of these plant-based telehealth companies.
There's, there's a couple that have some really great lifestyle physicians associated with it.
If, if coming down or getting off your meds is something that you aspire to, because as you know, most, most cardiologists that aren't associated, or I I should say, not indoctrinated into this lifestyle, have a hard time kind of getting their heads wrapped around it.
Yeah. Yeah. It's amazing that when I went plant-based and I told my cardiologist, I've now told two because I moved from Miami to here.
[37:52] None. No doctor ever said to me, you know, if you went plant-based, you would eliminate your cardiovascular disease. Yeah.
And I remember in your dad's book, he said, if the entire population on plant-based, we'd eliminate 80 percent of all chronic disease.
And I believe it. And yet the doctors have not said that.
No. Yeah. And there's a myriad of reasons for that.
Obviously, you know, most are, you know, they're they got their head down in this into the standard American diet, just like most of us. And so they have the same food addictions and and likes that everybody else does.
And I mean, let's face it, let's in some ways, let's call a spade a spade.
You know, them them digging deep into this, the data and the research is.
[38:41] Then would take away a large amount of their, of their income.
Right. Yeah. And so in some ways I think it's, they don't want to look through that, look through that telescope and see those, those three moons circling around Jupiter.
[38:58] Yeah. Yeah. So, so basically it leaves us on our own to learn and be, and that's why I love your podcast because I learned so much.
Doctors' Resistance to Plant-based Lifestyle and Listener Feedback
[39:06] Just that coconut episode was. was oh yeah yeah that was it that was it like i used coconut milk occasionally for indian food no no i found a substitute cashew based that turned out delicious i didn't need the coconut milk good and then you also have the coconut extract that you can do with a little bit of a nice clean um like almond milk or oat milk or something like that but good i'm glad that that you did that.
Um, let me just see if we got any more comments here that we can fire out to you.
Um, here, we just have some people commiserating with you.
Sharon says, uh, same here, Robert, I ended up giving my new cardiologist here in Arizona, a copy of the permit or, or, uh, maybe of prevent reverse heart disease.
Um, yeah, it's amazing how many, well, do you know, you know, the, the, um, the quote from, uh, Kim Williams, right?
The, the, the former president of the American College of Cardiologists.
He says, basically there's two different types of cardiologists, Those that are plant-based and those that have yet to read the data, because once you read the data, it's pretty crystal clear.
[40:24] Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's why your dad's book made so much sense.
And now I believe in lifestyle medicine, which is treating the root cause of, you know, that's what my friend Neil Cooper does.
And and so I think that's that's the way to go is, you know, what are we putting in our mouth?
And I will say this, that this has been the joy of my life since I read your dad's book and went plant-based.
It is so much fun.
And to know that everything going in the mouth is healthy and then the body is not inflamed.
At the time I went vegan, I had inflammation from working out in my forearms and in my knee. And that was gone in three weeks and it's never come back.
And it's just incredible how youthful the body is without by eating clean.
Yeah. Any other changes that you've noticed besides like the reverse of the blockage in the carotid arteries, elbows, knees?
Like, are you sleeping better or anything like that?
[41:36] Yeah, I sleep great. I've put on a lot of muscle with the trainer.
So eating this way, I'm getting plenty of whatever I need to build muscle.
So I'm happy at my age with the way I look. I feel like I'm 20.
I, you know, I get out of a chair. I'm loose.
It's, you know, it's good. It's nice. What are your, Robert, what do your friends think of what you're doing?
[42:04] Or do you still have any friends? I do. I do. Yeah.
Well, the cranks, you know, my two best friends, they tease me, you know, especially when I'm ordering and I go, OK, I'd like a stir fry. No oil.
Or if they have to use oil, I want one drop of oil, but very little.
And then, you know, they roll their eyes like, oh, here he goes again.
But, you know, I'm advocating. communicating and um but but most people are very interested if i am ordering and they it's obvious that i'm plant-based they are curious and then they ask a lot of questions well how do you get your protein and aren't there good fats and i'm like well according to my source and i'm placing my bets on him uh no so um that's why yeah that's how it usually goes yeah and you you mentioned i I think that you also were inspired by the documentary Forks Over Knives.
Yep. Yep. And, you know, that came out in 2011.
Can you remember what year it was that you saw it and where you were when you watched it?
[43:13] I was in my Miami home, and it was probably 2000, let's see, 2018, around 2018.
Yeah. So four years ago, I watched, I did the whole, I watched them all.
I watched that and, uh, hope project was, was very enlightening.
Game Changers: Finding the Truth in Different Expert Opinions
[43:39] Um, game changers. When you guys came out with game changers, watch them all.
And, um, and it just, I just found it to be truthful.
Like you never know. You ask 10 different experts, you get 10 different answers.
So you've got to place your bet on somebody.
So when I see a doctor who's treating the walking dead and writes a book that makes sense to me, I'm like, okay.
And then it works, and I reversed it. I'm like, okay, well, I'm an anecdotal, you know, example, and I'm not going to tell somebody this is the truth and this is how you have to be.
But if they're open to it, I share the PLANTSTRONG playbook with them. Yeah, yeah.
That's really, that's really cool. It seems like so many of us, we're always looking for like, I don't know, another way.
And as you said here, there's so many different experts that are out there.
There's so much noise. There's so much confusion.
And I tell people, listen.
Embracing the Whole Food, Plant-Based Lifestyle
[44:48] Don't go on another fool's errand.
Just know that whole food, plant-based, it is the mother load, right?
This is like the path that you want to go down and figure out based upon your life, your challenges, your work, your schedule, your family, figure out how to make this work in your world.
And that's what you should focus on. Don't focus on, oh my God, there's this new diet coming out.
And I'm going to pivot to that because as you've mentioned, right?
I mean, the absolute dearth of the research and data is there and it supports this, whether it's diabetes, heart disease, we're now learning all about Alzheimer's, which is really considered type type three diabetes, whether it's metabolic syndrome, whether it's just being overweight and obese, whole food, plant-based baby.
[45:51] Yeah. And that's another thing, the Alzheimer's. So I'm going to live till a hundred.
So, uh, that's another thing that's on my mind is, uh, is, is working forever and, uh, and, and, and eating clean because I believe that that's part of the, the artery health. Absolutely.
So I'll let you take this question, Robert, and then let's see what you got to say. I do have a question for you both.
Why do so many vegan cookbooks use oils, salts, and sugars?
The Misunderstanding of Good Fats
[46:27] I'm going to guess that they haven't tuned into your father's book and maybe your movement or or the pervasive view that there's good fats.
But your father made it so clear. Fat inflames the cells of the body.
And what the effect on the endothelium of that is and how it allows plaque buildup.
[46:53] And so I just think they're uninitiated and don't know.
And or they're trying to make their recipes delicious to sell their books.
I don't know. but more and more I find plenty on YouTube and other sources that are no oil or no fat.
Yeah, no, I couldn't agree with you more. And, and a seven piece frog, that's kind of a great handle, isn't it? Seven piece frog.
I would say that they're just, they're using the usual suspects, the, the oil, the salt and the sugars. And by doing this.
[47:31] Um, you know, it's, it's what they know. And when you don't use the usual suspects, you got to take your culinary chops to a whole nother level.
And this is why I admire so much. Like what, for example, Carleigh Bodrug, who's been on the PLANTSTRONG podcast.
She's wrote the book called Plant You.
And for the most part, it's oil-free it's whole food, you know, plant-based and she does a phenomenal job with it. You know, obviously, Kim Nelson just came out with a book.
That's Colin Campbell's daughter-in-law.
You know, my sister, Jane, Plant-Based Woman Warrior, The Engine 2 Cookbook.
I mean, there are a lot of different cookbooks that are coming out.
I just interviewed a woman.
It hasn't aired yet on the PLANTSTRONG Podcast called The Clean Vegan.
Vegan and it's whole food, plant-based, no added oils.
So just know seven piece frog that these cleaner cookbooks are out there.
[48:36] Just kind of got to do a little bit of due diligence and you'll have over a thousand, you know, low fat, whole food, PLANTSTRONG cookbooks or recipes, I should say at your fingertips in no time.
For sure. I agree, Rip. Hey Rip, I have a question for you.
First of all, I've I've eaten your stews and those are clean and, you know, almost no salt, no oil. They're delicious.
So you've you've figured out whether it's the purees or whatever, how to how to give it a base and depth.
[49:13] That's the one thing in my cooking that I struggle with is you use.
So I'll use veggie stock and I need without having a lot of salt depth.
So if you have any answers on or suggestions on how to add a bottom to it and more depth so that it's it's not thin and and weak.
Adding Substance and Depth to Recipes
[49:38] Yeah, well, you obviously want to do something that will give it that substance that I think you're looking for.
Um so i find potatoes are fantastic butternut squashes are fantastic especially when you put in an immersion blender in there any kind of lentil red yellow brown you know lentils uh are fantastic same thing with um, with split peas, right? Corn, corn on the cob, or you can just take a bag of frozen corn, put it in there, immersion blender it up, whatever it is you're making, some roasted Trader Joe's corn.
It's incredible what that will do.
You know, you mentioned, I'm just gonna, for a second, I'm gonna grab something.
[50:29] But like you mentioned, so we're coming out, Robert, with five actually six new chilies and stews in june and like so we got this we got a chunky chipotle right that's got that depth we got a uh we got a spiced lentil like watch out move over and then we've also got we got a sweet and smoky we got a jump uh you mentioned a jambalaya we got got a look at that right oh sweet spicy cajun jambalaya yeah baby and then and then you know for people that like to kind of keep it simple we got just a uh a black bean but we're doing really cool things in the chili and stew space and whole foods is just taking us uh taking all all these nationally here so that'll be available online at whole foods starting in in june so So that's pretty awesome.
Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for the plug.
[51:30] No, no. Well, I'm looking for solutions and you figured it out.
Well, thank you. We're doing our best. And one of the things we've done, too, is, you know, we were trying to be the best by a mile.
[51:42] Robert, when it came to the sodium, I mean, we were, you know, one hundred and eighty, two hundred and twenty milligrams per serving.
And we've upped that into the high 200s, low 300s, and we're still the best by a lot.
But it's amazing how just a little bit more sodium, 50, 60 milligrams per serving can really make a difference, I think, in the palate of people that we're trying to reach that are even outside the whole food plant-based funnel.
Because our goal really is to just get people that want to eat healthier, delicious food. It doesn't necessarily have to be plant-based.
Right. Just healthier food.
And they want to eat strong food. So, you know, we're trying to we're trying to crack that riddle and figure that one out.
Yeah. Well, we could always add salt if we want.
Exactly. Exactly. And that's one of the things we yeah, we put that we put that on there. Right.
And we trust you have a salt shaker at home if you need a little bit more, you know, oomph.
Uh oh yeah this is a nice carol carol says that you know steamed zucchini is great as a thickener when you use immersion blender too yeah yeah nice that's awesome yeah uh all right you guys anything else otherwise you know i feel like uh.
[53:03] Robert, we've kind of done a great job milking you of all your almonds.
Flexibility in Diet: It's Not All or None
[53:09] You know, one thing I would say is I find some peace and comfort in not being 100 percent rigid on what I eat.
So it's not. Yes, I'm empathetic, too. I don't eat meat and I don't eat chicken.
I do occasionally eat fish. um but i think that it's not an all or none proposition so if it's oh i gotta go 100 therefore i'm not interested no you could be i'm 85 90 and if i go to somebody's home for dinner i don't ask them make me something that i'll just eat whatever they they serve because i'm not going to die from one night of you know whatever and and i'll i might taste the the meat or I might, but I'm not going to enjoy it, but, um, but I'm not going to ask for a special menu.
[54:06] And I think that that makes it a lot easier to be vegan and plant-based because if I could, if I could do what I did and reverse this being 85, 90%, you know, then that's pretty good. It's fantastic.
And I, you know, listen, all or nothing, it works for some people, for other people, it absolutely backfires and it doesn't work at all.
So I think everybody know your personality and know what works for you.
Um, you know, I will say as the devil's advocate to that, just that my father with his patients that have had, as you said, the walking dead, that literally had one foot in the grave and.
[54:51] He's like, I don't want you to have one thimble full of oil.
And the reason why Robert and everybody that's listening is because he's had patients where he said, all right, let's start introducing a little bit of olive oil again.
And I kid you not, just a tablespoon of olive oil introduced in two weeks started giving these people angina again. because as a firefighter, I can tell you the analogy that I'll use is it's like a little spot fire.
Like after we, after we put out a fire, you got to have like a crew standing around that fire for at least 24 hours because you have all these little spot fires, these little embers that could reignite.
And so for people that have, that have really intense heart disease, they've had the heart attacks they've had. And I'm not exaggerating when I say this, Robert, it.
He's had some patients that have had 47 stents, 47 stents.
These are people that have to play absolute hardball because otherwise they don't want that little spot fire to ignite again.
[55:58] So, so again, I'm going to say, know yourself, know where you are and what works and doesn't work.
But listen, my whole thing is PLANTSTRONG, more plants, the better.
And, uh, you know, You're just putting more fantastic, nourishing, rich foods that are going to really take your health to the next level when you're doing the plants.
[56:22] All right, you guys, it is like the bewitching hour when Robert and myself, we're going to turn in.
What are you going to turn into in three minutes, Robert? Robert?
I think I'm going to turn into a delicious eggplant polenta veggie bake.
I know you don't like eggplant. You did that intentionally, didn't you?
Oh, it's so good. Nice. Well, I'm going to turn into a sumo orange, a big old sumo orange.
All right. Okay, maybe I'll have an apple in your honor.
All right. I love it. I love it. Hey, Robert, this has been an absolute joy.
Joy, I want to thank you for reaching out, you know, all your successes.
And, you know, as you said, it feels really nice to be going down a path where every meal, you know, you're doing something that's beneficial for your health, for the planet, right?
You're being kind and compassionate to the animals that we share the planet with.
It's a good thing. So we need more Roberts on the planet. it?
It's a PLANTSTRONG Rocky mountain high.
[57:33] Yeah. All right. Hey, you know how we'll want to end this, right?
Yep. Well, how are we going to end it? You tell me.
Fist pump, PLANTSTRONG. You know it.
So, hey, Robert, keep it PLANTSTRONG.
My PLANTSTRONG brother. Okay. Good to be with you. Thank you.
All right. Bye everybody. Have a great weekend.
Share Your PlantStrong Success Story!
[58:02] Do you have your own PLANTSTRONG success story?
Leave us a voicemail at speakpipe.com forward slash PLANTSTRONG, and we'd love to share it on an upcoming episode.
The PLANTSTRONG podcast team includes Carrie Barrett, Laurie Kortowich, and Ami Mackey.
If you like what you hear, do us a favor and share the show with your friends and loved ones.
You can always leave a five-star rating and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.
And while you're there, make sure to hit that follow button so that you never miss an episode.
As always, this and every episode is dedicated to my parents, Dr. Caldwell B. Esselstyn Jr.
And Anne Crile Esselstyn. Thanks so much for listening.
Thank you.
