#202: Cyd Notter - Break Down the Barriers to Lasting Habit Change
APPLE PODCASTS | GOOGLE PLAY | STITCHER | SPOTIFY | YOUTUBE
This week, we're busting down the barriers to habit change, especially your food and lifestyle habits.
Cyd Notter has been a vegetarian since 1991, but it wasn’t until 1999 when she turned fully to a whole food, plant-based diet, that her life and career took off. She's been skyrocketing on plants ever since.
Today, she’s 67 years old and thriving as a busy health and nutrition coach, writer, and speaker. She holds just about every plant-based certification on the planet and works each day to educate and inspire others - what a true calling!
Because Cyd works a lot with people who are just learning the “how-tos” of a whole food, plant-based, oil-free lifestyle, she and Rip center their discussion around some of the biggest barriers to making this change.
They discuss:
Blind or willful ignorance
Fear of change - fear of failure, out of your comfort zone, changes in your routine
Avoidance of short-term pain and inconvenience
Ingrained habits that are hard to break
False perceptions about being plant-based
Denial of health issues or insistence that a change isn’t necessary
Pride (or rebellion)
Family and social pressure
Emotional eating
Spiritual attack on our values
Every one of these is important to get out on the table and discuss because, no matter what change you’re trying to make, you will run up against these and other obstacles.
The biggest question is how you’ll respond and Cyd coaches you (and her clients) through every difficult scenario to ensure that you are equipped to make the healthiest possible choice.
About Cyd Notter
Cyd Notter is a Center for Nutrition Studies PBNC Certified Professional, a past newspaper columnist, and an instructor for several dietary therapy courses, including The Starch Solution, Food Over Medicine, and Women’s Health. She’s also the author of the award-winning book, The “Plan A” Diet: Combining Whole Food, Plant Based Nutrition with the Timeless Wisdom of Scripture.
Cyd offers a variety of health and cooking classes, hosts a monthly “Inflammation Support Group” for PBNSG.org, provides nutritional coaching on both individual and corporate levels, speaks to local groups, and has worked with school district employees and a hospital’s fitness center. Cyd also served as a Certified Health Educator for many years for Wellness Forum Health.
Order The “Plan A” Diet
Episode Resources
Watch the Full Episode on YouTube
Learn more about The Plan A Diet
Cyd Notter’s Website - https://cydnotter.com/
To stock up on the best-tasting, most convenient, 100% PLANTSTRONG foods, including our all-new pancake and waffle mixes, check out all of our PLANTSTRONG products HERE.
PLANTSTRONG Meal Planner - use code: STARTFRESH to receive free two weeks
Join our PLANTSTRONG Sedona Retreat - October 9-14, 2023
Give us a like on the PLANTSTRONG Facebook Page and check out what being PLANSTRONG is all about. We always keep it stocked full of new content and updates, tips for healthy living, and delicious recipes, and you can even catch me LIVE on there!
We’ve also got an Instagram! Check us out and share your favorite PLANTSTRONG products and why you love it! Don’t forget to tag us using #goplantstrong 🌱💪
Full YouTube Transcript
Rip Esselstyn:
I could not be more excited to introduce to you our newest launch in our PLANTSTRONG food line. It's our new pancake and waffle mixes. They come in three super exciting flavors. We have a seven grain. We have a sweet potato and ancient grain. Both are organic. And we have for all of you that have been clamoring for gluten-free, we also have a homestyle, gluten-free pancake and waffle mixes. We just launched these three days ago, and I want you to know that forever I had been making waffles from scratch because there wasn't a mix available that was made with clean whole grains and without all the processed flour, the powdered milks, all the sugars, and of course all always some sort of oils. And let me tell you, the waffles that you can make with this mix, they taste absolutely decadent. They rise perfectly, brown perfectly, bubble nicely.
You're going to love them. And the great news is you don't have to wait for the weekend to make them. You just add water or your plant-based milk of choice, stir, and then you pour into either the pan or the waffle maker. It's up to you. So, check them out. Go to plantstrongfoods.com. I want you to know that they're loaded with fiber, loaded with protein. They're going to satisfy your cravings, and the whole family will absolutely love them. Thanks so much. I'm Rip Esselstyn and welcome to the PLANTSTRONG Podcast. The mission at PLANTSTRONG is to further the advancement of all things within the plant-based movement. We advocate for the scientifically proven benefits of plant-based living and envision a world that universally understands, promotes and prescribes plants as a solution to empowering your health, enhancing your performance, restoring the environment, and becoming better guardians to the animals we share this planet with.
We welcome you wherever you are on your PLANTSTRONG journey, and I hope that you enjoy this show. Several months ago I had the opportunity to speak at a plant-based nutrition support group known as PBNSG. And on this call, I met a health and nutrition coach, and her name was Cyd Notter. And even though Cyd has been vegetarian since around 1991, she still ran into health issues because she simply didn't realize how much junk that she was consuming. And I'm talking about all of those things that we try and stay away from here at PLANTSTRONG, all the added oils, the refined sugars, the processed grains, and of course all of the dairy. And it wasn't until around 1999 that Cyd turned to a fully whole food, plant-based diet, and that is when her life and her career took off like a skyrocket.
Today she is 67 years old and thriving as a busy health and nutrition coach. She's also a writer and speaker, and she holds just about every plant-based certification on the planet and works each day to really inspire and educate others, which is a wonderful calling to have now because Cyd works a lot with people who are just learning how tos of a whole food, oil-free lifestyle. We're going to center our discussion today around some of the biggest barriers to making this change. So, what are some of the things I'm talking about?
All the family pressures that go with changing your diet, denial of your own health issues, the fear of being the high maintenance one in the room, eating out at restaurants, and several more. Every one of these is important to get out in the open on the table, so to speak and discuss because no matter what change you're trying to make, you're always going to run up against obstacles. And the biggest question is, what will your response be? It is my hope that when you're faced with some of these barriers that you'll put yourself and your health first. And thanks to this conversation with Cyd, you'll leave today armed with plenty of inspiration to stand your ground and stay the plan. Strong course. Please welcome Cyd Notter. All right, Cyd Notter, welcome to the Plan Strong podcast.
Cyd Notter:
Hello. Good morning, Rip. Thanks for having me on today.
Rip Esselstyn:
My absolute pleasure, Cyd. We met for the first time, it was probably the very beginning of January, I was doing a little presentation for PBNSG. For people that don't know what PBNSG is, can you let everybody know?
Cyd Notter:
Sure. That stands for the Plant-Based Nutrition Support Group.
Rip Esselstyn:
And that's out of what city?
Cyd Notter:
Well, Paul Chatlin, the founder is from Michigan, but yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. But they don't have locations all over the country, do they?
Cyd Notter:
No.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Cyd Notter:
No, it's online. It's an online streaming platform for people that want support with their whole food, plant-based diet, either transition or tips to stay motivated with it. It's just a resource group for support.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Yeah, it's a wonderful resource. And you were kind of moderating my presentation, and in meeting you, I realized that you are quite the nutrition educator, author, and you've been delving into this lifestyle for many years. So, I'd love to pick your brain for a little bit this morning.
Cyd Notter:
Well, yeah, over 30 years ago some vegetarian friends invited us over for dinner and we thought, oh, that's going to be weird, but it might be fun too, so let's go see. And so we went to their house for dinner and they explained their reasons for eating a vegetarian diet was for animal welfare reasons, and we loved animals. So, we kind of tiptoed into that a little bit. But shortly after that, I ran into a class quite by accident, which was sponsored by the Wellness Forum, which was Dr. Pam Popper from Ohio.
Rip Esselstyn:
Oh, that's Columbus.
Cyd Notter:
Yeah. So, I went to that four week class and thinking, oh, I was already doing things so right, because I had given up meat, but I was still eating hostess cupcakes and eggs and cheese and junk. I mean, it was horrible, but I didn't know any better. So, I went to that class thinking I was already doing a healthy diet, and my eyes were just boop, wide open to the fact that I was not eating healthy at all, and that I needed to make some serious changes. So, my transition was a slow one. I went from unhealthy vegetarian to unhealthy vegan, and finally to whole food plant-based, no oil, maybe 15 years ago now. So, it was a 30-year journey for me, a long journey. But I always tell people, don't transition as long as I did. Jump in now.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Cyd, tell me this. You've got a very unique first name. I don't know if I've ever met a Cyd before, maybe a male Cyd. And your name is spelled C-Y-D. I'm actually watching right now on HBO Succession, and there's a Cyd there, a high-powered female that runs kind of his news department. But I'm wondering where did you get the name Cyd?
Cyd Notter:
It was a nickname given to me when I was working at our local nuclear power plant actually. I was actually an inspector there at the nuclear power plant, and they started calling me Cydney because there was a man there that had adenoid troubles, and there was no holds barred about teasing people or making fun of people in that environment. So, he would call me Cydney just because he couldn't say my name correctly. And they all started calling me that. And then they started calling me Cyd Vicious was, which was like a rock group back in the eighties.
Rip Esselstyn:
Oh, yes.
Cyd Notter:
Crazy.
Rip Esselstyn:
I think that was the Sex Pistols, if I'm not mistaken.
Cyd Notter:
And I wasn't familiar with them at all. But anyway, that's how the name stuck. And from there it stuck. And that was back in the seventies.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, so what is your given name?
Cyd Notter:
My given name is Cynthia, but I grew up as Cindy throughout my childhood. So, when I run into people and they say, Cindy, I know they're from the way long ago past.
Rip Esselstyn:
Right. Thank you for that little explanation. Now, when you decided to go from an unhealthy vegetarian to a unhealthy vegan and then the whole food plant based, was there a reason? Were you overweight, high cholesterol, anything going on health wise?
Cyd Notter:
Yeah, so my cholesterol was over 200. This was in my mid thirties. I had been diagnosed with osteopenia, so my bones were starting to thin, and I had constant colds, I mean, all winter and a lot during the summer too. I had colds all the time. So, my immune system was horrible.
Rip Esselstyn:
Okay, got it. And how has your immune system been functioning the last 15 or so years?
Cyd Notter:
It's been wonderful. I rarely get sick now, and my family history is dire. I mean, it's filled with heart disease, stroke, cancer, diabetes. Grandma was blind from diabetes. My dad was an insulin dependent diabetic, so I have a long family history of dire things, which I didn't want to go down that path either. And I wasn't even aware of that, Rip, until probably in my fifties, like, wow, I don't want to go down that path that even my siblings have gone down. So, I'm the only one in the family. I'm 67 years old right now and in good health. Nobody reaches 67 in my family without being on at least five medicines.
Rip Esselstyn:
So, you said you're one of how many brothers and sisters?
Cyd Notter:
I have one sister who unfortunately has had a stroke a year ago and is now bedridden, and we're caring for her to some degree. And my brother, I had one brother, he died in 2020 of lung cancer. There he is with my dad, that's my dad and my brother tending bar at my dad's bar, which was called Campos Lounge. Lounge is just kind of a fancy word for tavern. And there's my mom in the lower right. She ran a little tiny pizza kitchen out of that same establishment. So, growing up, Rip, I had all the pizza and root beer floats I could handle because I'd go in there with my mom during the day, and she made everything from scratch, the dough, the sauce. They even made their own sausage. So, it was truly an Italian kitchen that had the best reputation in the whole area.
Rip Esselstyn:
And this-
Cyd Notter:
I would go in there after school and she'd roll out a little piece of dough for me and let me make my own pizza, and then she'd slide it in the oven. And of course, it was always tons of mozzarella, shredded mozzarella and sausage and peppers. And then while that was cooking, I'd go stroll behind my dad's bar, because this was during the day, typically, there weren't very many patrons in there at the time. And he had those frosted beer mugs. So, I'd get a beer mug. And then he had vanilla ice cream for when they made grasshoppers and drinks that are made with ice cream. So, I'd go fill that up with ice cream. And then he had root beer on tap. So, I had the best black cows, root beer floats that you can ever imagine. So, that was a daily thing. And then he had a candy bar rack too, which I'd helped myself to on the way up.
Rip Esselstyn:
Can you remember what was your favorite candy bar back then?
Cyd Notter:
It was Snickers, and he had gum. Gum and Snickers. And he'd say, "Yeah, just put some money on the bar there, Kook, as you leave." As a joke, because he called me Kook. That was his nickname for me. So, you can see where my sugar addiction could have started at an early age. Right?
Rip Esselstyn:
Oh, yeah. So, your mom and dad were kind of the entrepreneurial, so your dad was the owner of a bar, and your mom had inside the lounge area, had this pizza joint, is that right?
Cyd Notter:
That's right. They made their own way. My dad was a World War II vet who hitchhiked home after the war. I mean, they didn't even have a ride. And from there, they really started with nothing. And they built a growing business with their hard work. They really had a good work ethic. And my dad's motto was, if you're going to make money in business, you've got to put it in yourself, the time. They didn't hire very many people. They did all the work themselves, typically.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Where did exactly, did you grow up and where was this lounge?
Cyd Notter:
The lounge is in Coal City, Illinois, which is an hour south of Chicago in a small town, small rural towns.
Rip Esselstyn:
Okay. Was it nice growing up there?
Cyd Notter:
It was very nice. Yeah. Small town. There were 74 people in my class of 74, the whole high school.
Rip Esselstyn:
Wow. Have you gone back to any of your reunions?
Cyd Notter:
Once in a while. They have something here called the Reunion Palooza where all the classes meet at the local park. So, no matter what year you graduated, you go there and you meet up with your class. So, that happens every summer. But yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, I would imagine that you are one of the few people are like, wow. Well, they probably don't call you Cyd. They probably call you by your original name. But, "Cynthia, what in the world are you doing? I want some of what you have."
Cyd Notter:
Yeah. Not too often. The Midwest is a tough nut to crack, Rip, when it comes to getting people to be interested in it.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Yeah. Now, you wrote a book that came out in late 2019, 2020, called The Plan A Diet. There she blows right there. Combining whole food, plant-based nutrition with the timeless wisdom of scripture.
Cyd Notter:
There's so many principles in scripture, not preachy type things, but principles like don't become so well adjusted to your culture that you fit into it without even thinking. Okay, so that's a verse. Now, how does that apply to our food? We fit into our culture without even thinking all the time when it comes to our food. Another principle would be that we're going to reap what we sow. So, whatever we plant, we're going to grow and harvest. And that applies to our choices. Excuse me. So, if we sow the seeds of an unhealthy diet, we're going to reap illness and early disease and all of that.
But if we're sowing the seeds of a healthy diet, we're going to reap optimal health and the less risk of disease. So, I wrote a book combining all the things I noticed as I was one of the Bible teachers at our school or at our church at the time for the women's group. For many years I helped facilitate a Bible group there. So, that's when I began to see how all the verses, excuse me, were tying in with healthy eating. And so that's what I wrote the book about. It took me five years to write it because I dragged my feet. I did not want to write a book.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, then I'm always interested because writing a book is quite an endeavor. And when you say you didn't want to write a book, but you did write a book, so who put that seed in your head, or why did you decide to write the book?
Cyd Notter:
Well, that was pretty much divine intervention, right? Because I started noticing, again, the correlation between principles from scripture and healthy eating and how they tied together. And just one night in 2013, I'll never forget it, I was so inspired that you are going to write this in a book. And I said, "No, I have no desire to write a book." But the ideas were flooding my mind so fast. I was writing them down as fast as I could think, and I mean was just, my mind was flooded with what I had the chapters laid out the first night. I mean, that's how direct I knew I was supposed to write this book.
Rip Esselstyn:
Isn't that interesting? With the Engine 2 diet, I actually had kind of a Jerry Maguire evening as well, once where I woke up at 2:00 AM and I went out into the kitchen and I put the whole bones together for the book, each one of the chapters that I think I closed my little notebook at 7:00 AM And yeah, it's like funny, you have this muse that just kind of visits you one night and you're like, okay, let's do this.
Cyd Notter:
But then, like I said, I dragged my feet for five years. So, it took me four and a half years to write the first half of the book. And then I gave myself a little kick in the pants like 2018. I said, that's it. You're either going to do this or get off the pot, right?
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Cyd Notter:
So, then I wrote as much in six months as I had written in four and a half years. And the first writer's conference that I went to, I was made an offer. So, that's very unusual too. So, that-
Rip Esselstyn:
Congrats.
Cyd Notter:
Things just fell into place for me.
Rip Esselstyn:
And why is it called the Plan A? I mean, is that just an A like an A grade in school?
Cyd Notter:
No, because when we say something is our plan A, it's our first choice, our most beneficial choice? What's our plan A? That's one big reason. So, this should be your plan for disease reversal, for prevention of disease, for the environment, for animals. And it was God's plan A diet, the garden, there was no meat for the first 1700 years in scripture, there's no meat. So, God's plan A was plants. That's the big reason.
Rip Esselstyn:
Hallelujah. That's what I'm talking about. So, let's, what I'd love to cover with you, and I'll kind of toss these out to you, but in this book, you talk about some of the biggest barriers to making this change. And so if you don't mind, I'll toss out some of these big barriers and then let's just kind of talk about each one. All right?
Cyd Notter:
Sure.
Rip Esselstyn:
So, this first one is ignorance. Yeah. What do you have to say about ignorance?
Cyd Notter:
Well, there's two types of ignorance. Blind ignorance is if you've really never been exposed to the message of how diet affects your health, and with today's information overload, that's hard to believe somebody could be in blind ignorance, and I'm sure anybody that's watching your podcast would not fall into that category. But the other one, which I see quite often is willful ignorance, where they're apathetic about changing their diet. They just don't care. And they don't care about the consequences of eating an unhealthy diet either. So, when that happens, and I talk about this in the book too, just little tips. You have to discover why you're a apathetic about your health. Is it too stressful to think about changing? You have low many reasons that could contribute to willful ignorance, but it is a common thing where people bury their heads in the sand. They don't want to know about it, because that would require them to change.
Rip Esselstyn:
One of the things that I have found so fascinating over the last 20 plus years myself, is I sometimes think that, oh yeah, this person, they'll jump in. They'll be all gung ho to get it. And this person, oh God, there's no way they have any interest in it. But what I've discovered is you just never know. Some of the people that you think would do it easily, struggle. The people you think, there's no way in the world they do it, they jump in. So, I just usually try and present it in the best way I can, not be judgmental and then see what happens a lot of times. So, let's talk about fear of change. A lot of people are afraid, aren't they?
Cyd Notter:
They are, because fear sort of disturbs our perception. So, when we're asked to do something unfamiliar or step out of our comfort zone, or maybe we're asked to learn new ways to shop and cook, or we're facing changes in our routines and habits, that's when fear of change can leave us stymied. We can't move forward because we're filled with fear. Even if you've failed in the past, you might fear another failure. So, the antidote for that is to really do some soul searching and figure out what are you afraid of? Truly write down anything that might fall into that category. And then evaluate those fears. Read them out loud and just do they even sound legitimate? Oftentimes they're not. They're just things that we have in our brain that it's going to be too hard to step out of my comfort zone. But write down your fears. Really evaluate them to see if they're legitimate. Because even if those fears came to fruition, would they even pose a danger to yourself or to someone else? Probably not.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, one of the bullet points you have there under fear of change is a new way to shop and cook. And for some people, that's a pretty big fear that if you've been eating a certain way your whole life and then all of a sudden you're asking people to buy all these things that they think are outside their comfort zone, there's a certain maybe potentially legitimate fear there that they have to overcome.
Cyd Notter:
And I get that too. I get that, because I've been there the first ... How about you Rip? Did you transition gradually or did you jump in with both feet?
Rip Esselstyn:
No, I had the good fortune of, I was at the University of Texas at Austin, and whenever I came home for either Christmas break or spring break or summers, I got to see my parents that were, I mean, they were neck deep into this new lifestyle that my father started with my mother in 1984. So, I had almost three years of watching and witnessing and also trying this food before I went all in 1987 when I graduated from college. Yeah. So, for me, it was a gradual exposure over three years.
Cyd Notter:
I think that anything longer than a six week transition kind of means your heart's not into it. So, I have a six week transition course that I offer, because I feel like if you're not taking steps to move forward at the end of six weeks, you should have it down. But yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, I get that. Obviously I was in a different situation where I was eating at the athletic training table, and I really didn't have much of a say as far as what I was eating. And this is back in the early eighties when there was not much offerings as in the way of whole food, plant-based. But I think if you're more of an adult, you're on your own. I totally get that six week, that sounds like a pretty good timeframe.
Cyd Notter:
In the first week of that course is all about your mental attitude toward it, because that is going to make or break it in my book. What do they say? Eating this way is 80% mentality and 20% skill. I kind of agree with that. That's why we're talking about all of these barriers, which are mostly all mental, except for physical food addiction, which is a physical barrier.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, no, I couldn't agree with you more. I think that attitude is, yeah, I would even say it's 98%. All right, so let's talk about another big barrier that you've identified to change, which is avoidance of pain.
Cyd Notter:
Yeah, I love this one. Avoidance of pain is when we're unwilling to endure the short-term trials that are necessary to achieve long-term gain. So, when you switch to a different way of eating, your taste buds are going to change. Your bowel habits are going to change. You're going to have to take time to learn to cook and shop differently. So, anything that's viewed as a hassle. So, this doesn't mean physical pain per se, it means anything you view as a hassle. So, if you're not willing to endure the hassles, you're not going to achieve the long-term gain, basically. So, this whole principle came from a book that I read many years ago by Dr. Henry Cloud. It was called Never Go Back, 10 Things I'll never Do Again. And this was a whole chapter, was avoidance of pain. And the author said, "Anything of value has this rhythm pain first and payoff later." And again, that doesn't mean physical pain, just anything we view as too much trouble.
Rip Esselstyn:
Can you give me another example of something in our lives where we have pain first, but pay off later?
Cyd Notter:
Exercise might be another one. You might get a little sore at first if you're exercising. I think anything, budgeting, it might be hard to go on a budget at first, but later on you're going to have money in the bank. So, yeah, I think it applies to many things in life.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, no, I definitely agree. This morning I got up at 6:05 to go to swim practice, and it wasn't the last thing I wanted to do, but it wasn't top of my list, but I did it, because I know how fantastic I'll feel as soon as that's over at about seven o'clock and it sets me up for a spectacular day.
Cyd Notter:
Awesome. Yeah, the author points out too, that many successful business people, as you would know, I'm sure you've gone through a lot of hassle with your business in order to see a gain.
Rip Esselstyn:
Oh, yes. Oh yeah. Yes. Quite the grind. Quite the grind. Got to keep grinding. All right, let's move on to another big barrier, and that is you've identified your in ingrained habits.
Cyd Notter:
Oh man, I'm a creature of habit. I don't know about you Rip, but habits are good, right? Habits can be very good, but when we're so dependent on an unhealthy eating pattern that it's preventing us from making changes, that's when the habits have become so ingrained that it's preventing us from being able to change. So, I've seen that many times, and I can understand it because I'm, like I said, I'm a big creature of habit too. So, the trick is to redirect our energy toward those positive habits rather than negative. And this would require identifying what those new habits are going to be. So, instead of Pop-Tarts in the morning, you're going to start eating oatmeal and fruit. Instead of having a Ben and Jerry's ice cream at night. You're going to make home homemade raspberry sorbet, bananas, and raspberries. So, you have to figure out what habits you're going to replace with what, and then do that, because the same action, if you repeat the same action all the time, you're going to form a routine and then you're going to form new habits.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, I like that a lot. Yeah. Swap out really healthy habits for those bad ones. What did you have, what kind of Pop-Tarts? Did you have this morning for breakfast?
Cyd Notter:
I didn't, but I had oatmeal sausage, actually. We have a sausage recipe that's made out of oatmeal and spice.
Rip Esselstyn:
Wow.
Cyd Notter:
So, I had that today because that's a treat. I don't have that all the time. I usually have oatmeal.
Rip Esselstyn:
Oatmeal sausage. Give me an idea how you put that together. And does it come out in a sausage or is it like a Bob Evans like little circle? What is it?
Cyd Notter:
It's a circle. So, you get some water boiling in your pan, add a little brags, a little sweetener, like maybe a tablespoon of maple syrup. Then you add in, we've got this breakfast sausage spice that I found at the farmer's market. So, if you don't want to be putting in all different spices, I just use this as my go-to. So, I founded it in Cape Coral, Florida at the farmer's market. I've never found anything that is near as delicious as this spice. Five teaspoons of spice and then quick oats, and then it boils into a mass. And then you make circles on a baking tray,
Rip Esselstyn:
And then you bake it for a little bit.
Cyd Notter:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. So, that sounds kind of time intensive, or am I mistaken?
Cyd Notter:
It's not. If you have the pre-made spice, if you had to be adding all the thyme and sage, and if you had to add all the spices, it might be more time consuming, but because I have the pre-made spice, it's basically just water and brags and syrup and spice and oats.
Rip Esselstyn:
And how many of those little circles did you have?
Cyd Notter:
Oh, did I eat today?
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Yeah.
Cyd Notter:
I ate two.
Rip Esselstyn:
Two. It doesn't sound like much. And did you have some fruit with those circles?
Cyd Notter:
Yep. Well, we had honeydew today for cantaloupe, honeydew.
Rip Esselstyn:
Honeydew.
Cyd Notter:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
And how do you to eat your honeydew?
Cyd Notter:
I cube it and eat it with a fork. I'm not sure.
Rip Esselstyn:
Okay. No, no, no. Because I find the thing about the honeydew, or cantaloupe or some of these melons is there's a certain pain involved with, okay, I got this thing, what do I do with it? I got to cut this thing up, and it's going to be little time intensive, a little pain in the butt. So, I find whenever I can cut it up and then put it in the fridge, and I usually put squeezed lemon or lime juice on top of it to make that flavor really pop. It goes, I mean, between the three kids, my wife and myself, we down it, but if we don't take the time to cut it up, it just sits there until it rots.
Cyd Notter:
Right.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Well, that's cool. I've never heard of the oat sausage before, so, yay. All right, let's move on to another one of your big barriers and is, which is totally legitimate, is false perceptions.
Cyd Notter:
False perception is what people get it in their mind that eating healthy is too hard or too expensive, too time-consuming, or they believe that the foods are boring or tasteless or bland, or will not provide adequate nutrition, which of course we know are all totally false. That's when they can't move forward because they've got these false perceptions in their mind. The only answer to that to break through those false perceptions is that you've got to be open-minded about independent research. And that's a key point. Independent research, which isn't funded by the egg industry or the dairy lobby or somebody, and then experiment with just easy recipes, and then find a community. There's many communities online where you can be encouraged, and those false perceptions then could be shattered because you'll find out that the foods are not boring, that they taste delicious. It doesn't have to be hard, it doesn't have to be expensive.
Rip Esselstyn:
No, just last week we had Toni Okamoto on the show, and her brand is Plant-Based on a Budget, and she just obliterates all those kind of false perceptions that this way of eating is expensive and you have to be wealthy to eat healthy, which is out there. It's certainly a perception that is out there.
Cyd Notter:
I think there's other false perceptions too, from the people that follow keto and the other high fat, low carb diets, or they're just not looking at the independent research. They've been convinced by those other diets. So, sometimes people even have a false perception about how healthy they are. They think they're healthy because they're on drugs that's got their blood biomarkers being controlled, or they think they're healthier than their neighbor, so they think they're in good health. And I see that a lot too. False perception about our own health status is another one.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, no doubt about it. I would say that if we were to ask a hundred people on the street, do you eat healthy or unhealthy, we'd probably have 80% that say they eat healthy when the reality is what they're eating is probably very unhealthy.
Cyd Notter:
Exactly.
Rip Esselstyn:
Another false perception, Cyd, that I think is unfortunately very real for many people is they're not going to be able to get enough protein. And if they are getting enough protein, it's not a complete source of protein.
Cyd Notter:
Yeah, that's a big one. And no matter how much we preach about it's still out there.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Yeah, it is, unfortunately. All right, let's move on. What about the barrier of denial?
Cyd Notter:
Oh, well, denial is refusing to acknowledge that there's a problem. And I've seen this a lot over the years, or pretending that a problem doesn't exist. And I always say it, you might not even recognize that denial is one of your barriers if you are in fact in denial.
So, it'd be hard to think, oh, well, I'm in denial if you're not even willing to admit that you're got some health issues going on. And again, if they're medicated, they think the problem has been fixed, so they're in denial about their health. And sometimes that can be a coping mechanism. It's too stressful to deal with trying to change my diet, or it could be a coping mechanism for some other underlying emotion. Maybe it causes them anxiety to think about changing. But it's a big one. In fact, there's a Gallup poll that came out about two years ago. It said that Americans are less and less likely to see themselves as overweight as time goes on, because everybody around them is overweight. So, they're less likely to see themselves as overweight or that they need to take action.
Rip Esselstyn:
So, true. And according to the CDC, what percentage of us are either overweight or obese? Do you know?
Cyd Notter:
Yeah, well, it was close to 75% last time I looked. 74 point something. That's three out of four people, right?
Rip Esselstyn:
No, you're exactly right. Denial. There's a joke about denial. Denial. I can't remember what it is.
Cyd Notter:
Denial. It's a river in Egypt.
Rip Esselstyn:
That's right. That's right. Exactly. All right, so this is next barrier, I think is it's very real. All these are very real. But this one is, I'm intimately acquainted with this one because I see so many people that are hanging onto this to the detriment of themselves. And that's pride or rebellion.
Cyd Notter:
That's that attitude of superiority, like you'll never get sick. I've seen people that really believe they will never get sick despite what they eat, or that no one's going to tell them what to eat. So, any feedback about their diet or constructive criticism is viewed as a threat. The stop signs go up, they feel threatened by any advice, and that can be a sign of pride. I mean, there's healthy pride and there's unhealthy pride. So, unhealthy pride is when your ego takes over rather than common sense. You feel you're superior to other people. And I have seen people with this condition even try to sabotage the efforts of other people, usually in their own family. If their family members are trying to eat healthy, they will even try to sabotage that by tempting them with different foods, or it's trying to keep everybody down with them, like the crabs in the bucket or whatever the thing is.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, no, absolutely. Yeah.
Cyd Notter:
The antidote to that would be, and this is going to take time, this is not an overnight fix because it might even require some professional help if you're ingrained in this. But to set set aside your self focus and develop a posture of humility that takes time. Listen graciously to other people, and then to be flexible in your thought patterns.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. So, obviously, as everybody knows, I used to be a firefighter, and you talk about a bunch of guys that had a lot of pride and were rebellious. I can remember there were some guys that they were trying to eat a little healthier, and so they would put just, let's say for example, half of their sirloin steak, they were going to throw it out or something. And this one guy came and he just decided, oh, you don't want that. And he gobbled up everybody's leftovers just to show us all, especially me, that you know, could eat all the meat you wanted and be supremely healthy and to the detriment of himself. And I don't know where this gentleman is now, but I can remember him just always taunting, always teasing. And his pride got in the way, for sure. Yeah.
Cyd Notter:
Sad.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. All right. So, you mentioned this around pride, but family and social pressure is a real thing.
Cyd Notter:
Oh man, this is one of the biggies, Rip. As you probably know, it's a very common hurdle because if your family isn't on board, sometimes it's easier just to join in than to stick with your plan, especially if they're scrutinizing you or your friend was doing their teasing and taunting. You can be made to feel guilty about what you're doing. So, it's a toughie because especially if the family members are not willing to work with you. So, I always say the first line of defense is to have a frank discussion with your family and ask for their support, really have a heart-to-heart talk. Explain what is motivating you to do this, and assure them that they're not going to be forced to eat like you do, this is something you're doing for yourself. Ask them for your support and then discuss the negotiables too.
Like who's going to do the shopping and cooking? Will they be willing to store their unhealthy foods in a certain cabinet out of your site? Would they be willing to join in with you once in a while? If you make a stir-fry, will they join in with you at times? But all of those things have to be discussed. I know several families who are divided when it comes to diet. It's usually a husband and wife, and they have figured out how to make it work. For the most part. Many people have gone through this trial and they have figured out how to make it work by them. I always tell my clients that you can succeed on your own. You do not need your family's support in order to succeed. There are support groups out here for you. It'd be lovely to reach out for support because then you're not fighting that battle at home as well.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. I'm going to go back and just share a story at the firehouse. So, we had this rookie that came through for three months. He was going to spend three months at our firehouse, and then three months at another firehouse because he had a six-month probation when you're a new firefighter. And of course, he didn't know what he was getting into when he came to firehouse number two, that we were all plant strong, but he quickly learned and he rotated through the cooking and was, by the end of his three months, was just doing a fantastic job.
And then he went to this other fire station for the last three months, and I asked him if he was able to keep with it, and he said, "Rip." He's like, "No way. I don't want to stick out like a sore thumb. I just want to get along. And so the last thing that I'm going to do is make ways by trying to show these five to six other guys that I'm somehow superior to them by eating this way." So, so much of it is, I think your confidence, how you present this lifestyle to others. It's just a very complicated thing that each one of us has to figure out as far as what works within our personality and the different situations that we are in.
Cyd Notter:
This would even apply to social pressures too, with the people that you hang out with. That can be a time too, when a discussion might be in order.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, for sure. All right. This next one, this is that you've identified as a big barrier to changes, emotional eating. What are your thoughts on that?
Cyd Notter:
Well, as an emotional eater, I have a lot of thoughts on it. Emotional eating is when we turn to food to deal with anxiety or stress, or sadness, or anger, or boredom. For me, if there's something I don't want to do, if there's some task, I want to delay my head's in the refrigerator, that's a given. That's one of my delaying tactics is to go look for food. So, I'm a very emotional eater, but you just learn how to work around that. So, you have to know what your weak spots are. What is going to cause me to go into the kitchen or to the drive up window or to wherever, and what am I seeking? Am I looking for sugar, high fat things? It's usually comfort food. We're not on the hunt for broccoli and rice. We're looking for something that's going to give our brain a little dopamine hit usually.
But figure out your weak spots and then figure out alternative coping strategies that do not involve food. So, one would be if you're bored, I like to eat when I'm bored too, but instead I'm going to read, or I'm going to do a puzzle on my iPad, or I'm going to find a new hobby that I'm going to get interested in. I'm going to go clean my shoe closet or something. Just figure out what it is that you're going to do instead of that knee-jerk reaction to go into the kitchen. Or if you're anxious, and this is another one, stress is a big emotional factor. I always advise to give yourself five minutes. Just sit down, stop right then, sit down and let that emotion be front and center right then. Don't try to squash it. Just face what's going on, recognize what it is, and then realize that this too is going to pass. This emotion is going to ebb, and usually in five minutes you'll see a big difference and you'll no longer be searching for food.
Rip Esselstyn:
What are your thoughts on making your kitchen and your home a sanctuary where you don't have, as you said, let's just say the donuts, the ice cream, and some of those other foods that when you get stressed or you have an emotional event you're reaching for that. Don't you think that's a good idea? Just have a, so it's not about will willpower, it's just about, hey, you know what, if you feel like you got to eat for emotional reasons, you'll be eating a bell pepper and an apple.
Cyd Notter:
It's critical, Rip. Absolutely. You have to sanitize your environment. You cannot have the crap in the house at all, but if your family members have it there, that's another, we just talked about that. But yeah, no, sanitize your car or your office, wherever you're working, wherever you tend to eat. A lot of people eat in the car. I like to eat in the car. Wherever you eat that, that area has to have no junk foods in it. I used to love Twizzlers. That was my big thing. Oh, red Twizzlers. Yeah, they're vegan. And I would stand in the store and debate with myself, I'm going to buy that bag of Twizzlers and I'm going to eat one Twizzler a day. Well, no, I did not eat one Twizzler a day. I came home and ate five Twizzlers, and then when I got upset, I ate five more Twizzlers. So, I haven't had Twizzlers for years, but that was a thing for me.
Rip Esselstyn:
So, you liked the red, you didn't like the black liquorice?
Cyd Notter:
Yeah, I like the red. So, that's another thing too that I talk about. You either have to, when you're faced with tempting food, you either have to flee immediately or face it. So, if you're in the store, you can flee. If you're starting to bargain with yourself over some junky thing, just flee. Just go. And I have mental tips that apply to that too, which I could share right now if you'd like me to. There's one mental tip that works really well for me.
Rip Esselstyn:
Would love to hear it.
Cyd Notter:
Don't use the words I can't have that. Use the words, I don't eat that. So, when you say, I can't eat glazed donuts anymore, you're limiting yourself. It reminds you of your limitation. I can't eat that. I would if I could, but I can't. So, it's a limiting psychological thing. There's been studies on this, so it creates a feedback loop in your brain that you're limiting yourself from something you'd really like to do. But if you use the words, I don't eat glazed donuts anymore, that's a confirming, empowering way to say, no, you've already decided that you don't eat glazed donuts anymore. It's already been decided. So, walk away. You don't do that anymore. That has helped me so much. That one little tip about using the words I don't versus I can't.
Rip Esselstyn:
No, words are so powerful, aren't they? You mentioned-
Cyd Notter:
Oh yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
You've heard you say a couple of times, we like with your oatmeal sausage this morning and some other things. Do you have a husband? Do you live with somebody?
Cyd Notter:
Yeah, my hubby Steve. Yep, he's-
Rip Esselstyn:
And he's on board?
Cyd Notter:
He's on the same journey as me. He's been plant-based, we're on the same journey. So, he's completely whole food, plant-based, no oil.
Rip Esselstyn:
Fantastic, fantastic. How long you guys been together?
Cyd Notter:
33 years. We were married in 90s, so this year will be 33.
Rip Esselstyn:
Wow.
Cyd Notter:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
Fantastic. Yeah, he's what?
Cyd Notter:
He's a man of great patience.
Rip Esselstyn:
Good patience is a virtue. Let's talk about this next barrier that you have. And we all know that this is big time reel, and that is food addiction.
Cyd Notter:
Oh, man. Yeah. So, food addiction is when we've lost control over the ability to stop eating those highly palatable foods, high sugar, high fat, high calorie density. So, again, we talk about sanitizing your environment. That is crucial if you're struggling with a food addiction. And how do you feel about it, Rip? Do you think total abstinence, right? Remove all the addictive foods and go cold turkey? I know there's differing points of view on that.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, I think it depends upon know yourself also, it depends upon where you are on your health or your unhealthy journey. If total abstinence is the answer, I can tell you for myself, I totally abstain from all animal products, animal byproducts, and so I only eat plant-based foods. Now, am I a hundred percent whole food, plant-based? No, I'm probably 90, 95% whole food, plant-based. And there's times when I'll eat, I'll have a Ben and Jerry's vegan ice cream, I'll have a little bit of that or something else. But for people that typically, for example, come to our medical immersion retreats, these are people that are unhealthy. We totally recommend total abstinence for them because they've gotten in trouble because a little bit continues to feed the monster, so to speak. Right? We want to cut it off at the head.
Cyd Notter:
Right. I agree. If you're going to keep drip feeding that addiction, it's going to be harder and harder to let it go.
Rip Esselstyn:
Drip feeding. That is awesome. That's a great way of putting it. Yeah.
Cyd Notter:
I was addicted to mocha lattes a few years ago, Rip when I was writing my book, and I didn't even realize it till I wrote this chapter on food addiction. So, I discovered that I was planning my whole routine about when I was going to be at that window to get that mocha latte. I mean, I was ordering decaf coffee with plant milk, and only half the mocha that they typically put in those drinks. But that was enough to get me hooked. So, we'd be on a trip on the highway, my husband and I, and I'd have him go miles off the road, just miles off the highway, just so I could get a mocha latte at this popular coffee spot. And he would do it.
Rip Esselstyn:
You wanted that fix.
Cyd Notter:
I'm writing the book and I'm thinking, wow, scripture says that whatever we can't give into soon becomes our master. I'm like, yep, mocha lattes have become my master. And so this has got to end.
Rip Esselstyn:
So, did this particular joint that you went to, did it start with an S or did it start with a D?
Cyd Notter:
At that time it started with an S, but I don't go to S anymore. I go to D.
Rip Esselstyn:
Gotcha. Gotcha.
Cyd Notter:
But just real plain, nothing sugary.
Rip Esselstyn:
Right, right. So, this last one that I have is one of the big barriers to making change is spiritual attack. What exactly do you mean by that?
Cyd Notter:
Well, there's those of us that are in the faith we recognize that we have an enemy that likes to prey upon our weak areas, especially regarding our health and food, and convince us that we'll never change. He's a very big discourager, once we recognize that, again, we can win the battle between our ears, which is the mentality. And scripture says, "Whenever you are tempted, there is a way out. You have been provided an escape route." So, what is that escape route? If you go into the meeting room at work and there's a box of crawlers there, or some other donuts, what's your escape route is just to flee the area. It's either flee it or face it.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Well, but in that example, let's say that I'm going into a meeting, it's a mandatory meeting of the marketing team at work, and I walk in and there's a big old table of glazed donuts. Krispy Kreme Glazed Donuts. I'm not going to flee. But maybe what I use as one of your strategies as far as opposed to I can't eat, this is, oh, there's some glazed donuts, but I don't eat glazed donuts anymore. Is that right?
Cyd Notter:
Right. And the other thing would be to bring your own pumpkin muffins in there. Bring your own, don't sit there and be deprived. Bring your own healthy treat.
Rip Esselstyn:
Here's my whole food plant strong pumpkin muffins. Yeah. No, but I totally, I hear you there, for sure. So, speaking of pumpkin muffins and oatmeal sausage, I know that you have some simple recipes that you like to share with people when they are resistant to making this change. Can you give me some examples of some tried and true simple recipes you recommend for people?
Cyd Notter:
Sure. Well, soy curls, for example. Are you a fan of soy curls recipes?
Rip Esselstyn:
It's so funny because I've had at least three guests on the podcast that have mentioned soy curls in the last four weeks. So, with Butler, I think Butler makes these soy curls. Yeah, yeah. No, I haven't had them in ages. I think I had them maybe eight years ago. But I hear they're pretty good, pretty clean, just like soy flour, if I'm not mistaken.
Cyd Notter:
Right. Hydrate a package of those. I put them in the food processor to grind them into a ground beef consistency then, saute up some celery and onion, the soy curls, and a homemade barbecue sauce. And you've got sloppy joes. I mean, just simple things like soups that require, I've got a black bean soup that you don't even have to chop a pepper. It's all canned, three cans of black beans, a can of tomatoes, and some spice. There are very simple recipes. I have a whole chapter on that in my book. I have a food plan that has a section of easy meals, steamer vegetables, right. Steamer rice, steamer vegetables with sauce, spaghetti with marinara sauce. I buy mine at Aldi. It's organic, it's oil free. It's under $2 a jar. Organic pasta sauce at Aldi, if there's an Aldi near you, so you boil up some whole wheat spaghetti, put your sauce on there, and a bag of steamer broccoli or some other steamer veggies that you like. So, then you've got a pasta primavera that you basically did nothing except boiled noodles.
Rip Esselstyn:
Delicious and very affordable.
Cyd Notter:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
And breakfast, your breakfast suggestion to somebody that's trying this out just be oatmeal, make it happen?
Cyd Notter:
It would, yeah. Or a tofu scramble. I like, there's a roadhouse hash recipe that I really like, which is a tofu scramble. Of course, that's more involved than just heating, making oatmeal. But oatmeal is great, or leftovers from the night before. I know more and more people are eating leftovers for breakfast, savory things. Have you noticed that?
Rip Esselstyn:
I have. But usually it's people that have been doing this for a while.
Cyd Notter:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
Was what I find.
Cyd Notter:
Right.
Rip Esselstyn:
What about salads? What's your stance on salads?
Cyd Notter:
Definitely like them. To me, they're a lot of work. Unless you're going to buy the pre-chopped peppers at the store and the pre-chopped everything. To make a salad, I'll sometimes go, oh, I got to make a salad, because I like to load them up. It's just not greens, it's peppers, it's everything. It's beets, it's grapes, it's everything. Red onion.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Cyd Notter:
But they are delicious.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. I usually throw a half a can of beans in there as well. I love butter beans. I love pinto beans, kidney beans, and those salads. I like to make it big and muscular.
Cyd Notter:
Yeah. And then I try to make a lot at one time like six, at least six salads to serve between hubby and I. Yeah, sometimes we don't eat them all. I have to admit, I should probably eat more greens than I do. I try to stuff them into other recipes rather than eat a salad.
Rip Esselstyn:
Cyd, I liked those barriers to change in how you addressed each one of those. Thank you. Is there a show right now that you're watching, that you're enjoying either on Hulu or Netflix or Amazon, something that you would like to share with us?
Cyd Notter:
Well, you're going to think this is funny. Right now I'm watching, My Name Is Earl, the series. Did you ever see that show, My Name Is Earl?
Rip Esselstyn:
I've heard of it, but I have not seen it. Do you recommend it?
Cyd Notter:
It's a comedy. He's a criminal that gets hit by a car, and while he is in bed, he learns about karma and he decides he's make a list of every bad thing he's ever done and go back and correct it. So, the series is about him going back to people that he wronged, like many years ago. It's just hilarious. Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
Is it Netflix or Amazon Prime? Do you know which platform you're watching on?
Cyd Notter:
Yeah. No, I had to buy it through our, we have Xfinity. It was on demand.
Rip Esselstyn:
Got it.
Cyd Notter:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
Got it. Well, Cyd, this has been an absolute pleasure and I can't wait to have you on again to talk about some more of your, I guess, topics that you talk about in The "Plan A" Diet book. We just covered one of many, which is just some of the barriers to change. But thank you for what you're doing to help people get whole food, plant-based, your commitment to this and getting outside your comfort zone like you did with that book.
Cyd Notter:
Thank You, Rip. It's been an honor to be here today. I'm so glad we got to meet at PBNSG.
Rip Esselstyn:
Me too. Me too. All right. Before we sign off, you got to hit me with a little plant strong fist bump. Plan Strong. You can learn more about Cyd at her website, cydnotter.com. And that's spelled C-Y-D N-O-T, as in Tom, T as in Tom, E-R, Cyd Notter. And I'll be sure to link it up for you in the show notes today so you can learn more about her work. And thank you as always for listening to The PLANTSTRONG Podcast, and even in the face of some resistance. Always keep it plant strong.
Thank you for listening to the PLANTSTRONG podcast. You can support the show by taking a quick minute to follow us. Wherever you listen to your favorite podcast, leaving us a positive review and sharing this show with your network is another great way to help us reach as many people as possible with the exciting news about plants. Thank you in advance for your support. It means everything. The PLANTSTRONG Podcast team includes Carrie Barrett, Laurie Kortowich, Ami Mackey, Patrick Gavin, and Wade Clark. This season is dedicated to all of those courageous truth seekers who weren't afraid to look through the lens with clear vision and hold firm to a higher truth. Most notably, my parents, Dr. Caldwell B Esselstyn Jr. and Ann Crile Esselstyn. Thanks for listening.
